Side-chaining possible?

Harbinger · January 10, 2009, 18:11:40

Reading with interest about "side-chaining" VST effects over at kvr-audio, trying to understand when to use it and to what effect. Does MPT allow for side-chaining? Has anyone experimented?

By the way, to understand what side-chaining is (for those that don't know), look in wikipedia (keyword "side chain", i can't stick the page url)...

Saga Musix · January 10, 2009, 19:07:20

In MPT, plugins can pass their audio only to a following plugin or the final mix, but it's not possible to send the output to two sources, f.e. a side-chaining compressor plugin and the final mix. So no, sidechaining is not possible.

oh, and here's your link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_range_compression#Side-chaining

Harbinger · January 10, 2009, 20:13:14

Thank you, Jojo -- concise and instructional.

It's not that big of a deal, but at least i get a better idea MPT's limitations....

LPChip · January 10, 2009, 22:11:11

A chainer would allow you to side-chain though.

älskling · January 10, 2009, 22:28:54

a side-chain compressor that works in hosts not natively supporting side-chaining..

psishock · January 10, 2009, 22:37:22

Yep, sidechaining is possible indeed with workarounds and VST plugins. There are ones example that supports "vitrual" channel routing, or as LPChip stated, with chainer it seems to able to do it 2. You will get a lot better dynamic sounding with sidechaining so i wouldn't say that "It's not that big of a deal". =)
I think that every recent producer is using it, i mean i have noticed it on most of the songs.

EDIT: nice example älskling, this VST is using "virtual" channels also.

älskling · January 10, 2009, 22:50:02

Quote from: "psishock"EDIT: nice example älskling, this VST is using "virtual" channels also.

Actually it's the only one I found (and Rakib linked to it in another topic too)... The mono version of the Slim Slow Slider side-chaining compressor might also work with OpenMPT, but I don't think it's worth the trouble.

Whether it's a big deal or not, I don't think it is that big of a deal... But I wouldn't mind seeing a lot more automation in OpenMPT.

Saga Musix · January 10, 2009, 23:13:45

sidechain compression is "not a big deal" in most musical genres anyway.

It can sound really bad in many cases.
Chainer may be able to do this, of course, but modplug alone won't do it.

Dunno if i tried that compressor älsking mentioned, but I definitely tried such a compressor once and it didn't work in modplug. and the mono version was just crappy...

psishock · January 10, 2009, 23:41:16

Quotebut modplug alone won't do it.

modplug "alone" can't do many things, but there are even free VSTs that will make able to do this in OMPT.

QuoteIt can sound really bad in many cases.

Well it should be used properly and it will make your sounds fit in dynamic range better. Why would it sound "really bad"? You don't have to use it only on kickdrums, you can do it on any sounds that are overlapping each other on similar range, so when one hits in, the other fades out gently, giving more room to the dominant one.

Saga Musix · January 11, 2009, 00:16:57

this "fading stuff" is just not supposed to be there in many situations. pushing away another sample just for space is not really a good technique.

LPChip · January 11, 2009, 10:54:44

The best option still is proper panning. put 2 overlapping frequencies on different locations in the stereofield.

seventhson · January 11, 2009, 15:48:31

Actually the best option would be to proper eq all the different elements.

Saga Musix · January 11, 2009, 16:54:26

well, it's possible to "emulate" side-chaining (doesn't have anything to do with EQs), just ask xaimus.

looks like a lot of work, though.

seventhson · January 11, 2009, 17:06:03

I use microgater for my sidechaining needs.
http://www.kvraudio.com/get/727.html

psishock · January 11, 2009, 17:07:00

You don't have much room on the dynamic bar LP, when everything is near 0db (normalised environment).

seventhson, i have worked many days recently on a technique that may have about the same effect on dynamic as the sidechain compression, but without the fadeout (side?) effect. Its basically real-time dynamic equalizing, so when some other sounds hit on, only the interfering frequencies would be cut out from the given sound, this way both will sound with the same loudness, clear, without clipping or interfering to each other.
However this job is complicated as hell (setting everything up) and i could only a few VST plugin on the net that could help me with this, and most of them costs around 400+ euro, so i've standed down from that idea.