Are you spiritual?

[tvdude]

LPChip...you've opened Pandora's Box....but I love it.  Don't worry about the topic overshadowing music.  What is music anyway?  You can't see it, taste it, touch it, or feel it (physically).  You can only hear it, and then formulate thoughts regarding it.   What you hear might make you sad, happy, angry, lonely, or any variety of emotions.  Music, is pure emotion, and affects us humans on that level.   This topic, although not musical, actually hits the same emotions music does, and therefore is highly relavant in this forum, as it will mostlikely spawn some great works of sound, not to mention, some great debate.  

And to rncekel...I love your post.  I have a very good friend who is a complete athiest; he challenges my way of thinking...you remind me very much of him.  You could be right, maybe man created god.  But then again, you might be wrong.  If there is life after death, won't we have a great conversation...maybe we'll both be wrong.

[uncloned]

In the beginning, there was Man. And Man created god and in the image of Man created he him.
And Man gave unto god a multitude of names, that he might be Lord over all the earth when it was suited to Man.
And on the seven millionth day Man rested and did lean heavily on his God and saw that it was good.
I think it is really more than a reasonable time to end with all this madness about trying not to be guilty (if god exist, only he is guilty of everything) and become Human at last, which can only be if there is no god at all.
The only sin that there is in the world, it's believing that there is something above Mankind.

Jethro Tull mostly - isn't it?

From Aqualung?

[uncloned]

In that case, where did Man come from? Hmm, a logic test here, rncekel

I think this is a sum zero game RWP

The game is no one can prove anything to anyone

Each has to find their own way to destiny

If there was real proof the debate would have been over long ago.

and whose to say that

(deserving) christians, buddists, hundus, etc go to heaven
the undeserving to hell
the atheist winks out of existence
the agnostic.... what would be fitting? become inanimate? no - never get an answer.

[Really Weird Person]

Not pasta

If Spaghedeity's appendages are not made of pasta, then what are they made of, clay? Stone? I would have to say that Spaghedeity is probably something (note the "thing" part) that was imagined and does not exist. It may exist in video games, but I have not played them if it does. Most of the games that I play [on consoles at least] are made by Nintendo and I cannot recall playing a single game made by them with a character called Spaghedeity.

[Sam_Zen]

I agree with uncloned about the inevitable option of being offensive. Often because some book, person, or mountain is declared 'holy'.
But I'm glad we've passed this tricky stage in this discussion, because we're just free spirits expressing ideas.

I agree with tvdude that music, sound-constructions, can be a very spiritual phenomenon.

Tonight I saw the docu "What the bleep..", about quantum-physics, for the 2nd time and I was still quite impressed.
A story about Indians on the Caribbean island when the fleet of Columbus approaches their coast.
They just didn't see the actual ships, because there was no element in their brain about such a contraption.
They just noticed some movement in the sea-water, wondering what was going on. So they came back to the shore every day.
Only after a week or so someone was able to actually see the ships with his eyes, and tell the others about it.

The docu also told about an experiment, where it appeared possible to see the same object being on two different positions at the same time.
But it also shows examples of the mindpower to change molecular structures of water.

[rncekel]

To uncloned: Yes, although I have write it "by heart", so it may be not exact.
To Sam Zen: I also have seen that fiilm a year ago or so with my family. And I found it quite interesting. But don't let your eyes deceived you: when people speak about god, most of them are speaking of very different things. That's why it is not possible to prove anything about god, because the word itself is undefined, and has a lot of different and uncompatible meanings.
I don't think that the "barbeque guys" (Inquisition) means by god the same thing as Teilhard of Chardin, for example, and of course, completely different of what some people in this film means by this word.
But, RWP, don't speak us about Jesus filling our emptiness, because I'm not empty at all, and Jesus wasn't a petrol can. If you mean that he might fill your life, well, I can agree with that, but that it's only right for you because YOU have chosen it so.

[Waxhead]

First of all I would like to say that I personally think LPChip is perhaps just a little nuts!
...and I said that LPChip is nuts... yeah right....

You said it twice now... Or 3 times if you count our msn chat

Actually I think I said it over 10 times...  and I would like to add that you are probably pretty much bananas  

And me?... well I would like to join those who are worshiping the spaghetti people! - Really Weird Person for president!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Relabsoluness]

.

[Sam_Zen]

This rather semantic discussion about a god becomes maybe a bit way off, because LP started about personal spiritualism.
The believe in the existence, or the denial, of a god, is just a small aspect in this discours.

Logic test: why would a supreme being be bounded to substances known to man?

2 logic answers :
1. Why not ? It could be a pebble on the Kilimandjaro.
2. Of course not. A supreme being doesn't need so-called 'concrete' material.
As I said, I don't deny the existence of a supreme being.
But if so, I only accept the 'ultimate supreme'. Not some rather pathetic man-thought being like an old man with a beard.
As said in the bleep-movie, it must be that big, that it doesn't bother about blasfemia, or getting angry about non-believers or 'sinners'.

I had my criticism about 'holy things', because they are causing a lot of trouble and fighting.
But there's one way, I can accept that. To the aboriginals in Australie some woods or mountains were 'holy'.
But this declaration meant, that it has become an area that people shouldn't enter anymore.
So no human claims anymore, or exploit the resources of the area, but given back to nature.

[uncloned]

let me observe that I can think of no reason for God to be capable of being defined by a logical argument at all.

My position is

I do not know

I do not care that I do not know

I try to do the right thing for its own sake.

God is way too big/different/powerful for me to grasp/grok

it is not necessary for me to grasp/grok God.

[LPChip]

Actually, if you talk spiritualism, there are people that say that the true god is whitin yourself, so that you basically are your own god.

That also makes it understandable why the true goal of spiritualism is to learn more about yourself, because that would be believing in god = believing in yourself.

For me, the only true god is the one inside of me.

[residentgrey]

FSM ftw, ahh the follies of college people!

Spirituality is just an openness to something outside our realm of understanding. People keep mentioning God or FSM, or some other figure. That's religion: a codified set of doctrines and archetypes representing some set of qualities to uphold and adhere to. I just wanted to remind everyone of that.

[älskling]

That also makes it understandable why the true goal of spiritualism is to learn more about yourself, because that would be believing in god = believing in yourself.

I'm curious, what does it even mean to "learn about yourself"? And what makes it spiritual?

[Sam_Zen]

2 uncloned
Your lines are right on the spot.
From time to time there are missionary people who want to convince me to be a "seeking" person. They take that for granted.
Well, I'm not. And you express very sharply my reasons why.

2 älskling
Good point about "learn about yourself". From the moment we're born, we're learning about ourselves, as well as the world.
I just feel obliged to keep on learning until I die, otherwise I would have the feeling that I'm wasting living-time.
I don't understand people, that decide to have learned enough for the rest of their lives at a moment and just go on.
And sometimes this learning could involve 'spiritual' items. Is this a 'spiritual' discussion, or just an exchange of words ?

[LPChip]

That also makes it understandable why the true goal of spiritualism is to learn more about yourself, because that would be believing in god = believing in yourself.

I'm curious, what does it even mean to "learn about yourself"? And what makes it spiritual?

If you look closer to the word spiritual, you'll notice the word spirit.

Humans are made out of 3 parts. Our body, our mind and our soul.

Our soul is what I call a spirit.

Spiritualism is about learning what our soul is and how we can be in balance with it, because when you're in balance with your soal, life is as beautifull as it can get. Its all about happyness actually.