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#21

Help and Questions / Re: Render volume level

Last post by herodotas - March 09, 2025, 21:18:30

Thanks, but why is not works like in others DAW's, because old tracker architecture?

#22

Help and Questions / Re: Render volume level

Last post by Saga Musix - March 09, 2025, 12:28:12

Nothing of that contradicts what I or peterpiper0815 said, on the contrary: The rendered sample plays at a lower volume because the "sample volume" in the general tab is probably set to a value of about -8.6dB. If you are using mixmode RC3 (the default in MPTM files), a sample volume of 48 corresponds to -8.52dB (as hovering the sample volume slider will tell you), so if you're working with an MPTM file and didn't touch the sample volume slider, that would perfectly explain the exact reduction in volume you observe.

If you need to be able to play a sample at exactly 0dB, there are two ways:

• Set the sample volume to 128. To compensate for the much louder sample playback, multiply each sample's global volume (or each sample-based instrument's global volume alternatively) by 0.375 (e.g. a global volume of 64 will be reduced to 24). Only the exported sample's global volume should stay at 64 so that it plays at 0dB.
• Compensate for the -8.52dB attenuation by playing multiple instances of the sample adding up to the same amount. For this you need to compute inverse of the attenuation factor, in this case 128 / 48 = 2⅔.... This means that to play the sample at 0dB volume, you need to play two notes of the sample at full volume, and a third one at 64 * ⅔ = v42.

#23

Help and Questions / Re: Render volume level

Last post by herodotas - March 09, 2025, 11:47:20

Stream Export (and that includes rendering to sample) always renders out the played data at exactly the same level as you would hear it during life playback.

But during life playback, meter show me -0.3 dB, rendered sample plays on -8.9 dB, all volume controls default, no plugins, except "Youlin loudness meter 2 free" on master, MPTM format.
Any way I can set settings, which give me the same loundness?   

P.S. I tried record output of OpenMPT to Audacity, I got the same -0.3 dB, but sample played back in tracker anyway shows -8.9dB

#24

Free Music Downloads / Re: [experimental] agnosis (f...

Last post by Saga Musix - March 08, 2025, 20:55:11

Mixing is a skill completely separate from composing music, and it's definitely not an easy one. Perfecting your mixing techniques can take considerably longer than improving your composition skills, especially when you do both at the same time. Especially in commercial music it is very common that mixing is done by a completely different person than the one(s) composing or performing the music.
Apart from the hints I gave above, here's a few more things I can recommend:

• Listen to other people's music. Try to analyze how their mix works. What's in the foreground, what's in the background, what's in the center, what's left, what's right, what moves around, etc.
• Listen to your music on different speakers and headphones. Different devices stress different parts of the frequency spectrum in different ways, so sometimes you start hearing details that you previously didn't hear, or something that you think is crucial to the song may completely disappear.
• Related to the previous point: I often hear the recommendation to get a really cheap mono speaker and listen to the music on that - if it sounds okay there, it probably sounds okay everywhere else as well. Can't vouch for that tip as I haven't tried it myself though.

#25

Free Music Downloads / Re: [experimental] agnosis (f...

Last post by IcarusDream - March 08, 2025, 16:21:50

Yeah, I'm fairly new to music production in general.
I've got into trackers only in 2024, and didn't have any prior musical education, so it shows .
Mixing is especially difficult for me, for whatever reason.
I've got a number of up-coming tracks, of different genres, more leaning into the orchestral side, and I'm still trying to figure how to mix them properly.

#26

Free Music Downloads / Order of the True Believer [mp...

Last post by n0cturn - March 08, 2025, 00:22:34

Back to my usual weird sht

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yORMGscq43qtMts-mhXS-Ip56IjZruO3/view?usp=sharing

#27

Free Music Downloads / Re: [experimental] agnosis (f...

Last post by Saga Musix - March 07, 2025, 17:48:39

Welcome to the forums!

The composition is sound, but the mixing could definitely use some improvements. A lot of the instruments are panned dead-centre, so they are all fighting for the same space in the mix. Try to apply some more panning and / or use more stereo samples to move things to the sides.

The vocals are also mixed way too low, barely audible. Even after reading the lyrics here, I wouldn't be able to make out the words in the song. This actually goes hand in hand with my previous suggestion: If you move other instruments off the centre, the vocals will have more room.

I hope that helps

#28

Help and Questions / Re: Render volume level

Last post by Saga Musix - March 07, 2025, 17:44:12

Stream Export (and that includes rendering to sample) always renders out the played data at exactly the same level as you would hear it during life playback.

However, when you load that exported stream back into the sample editor, it will, like any other sample, play at the configured sample pre-amp volume, as peterpiper0815 said. The sample pre-amp is usually way below 0dB because otherwise your sound would clip instantly as soon as more than one sample plays at the same time.

There's a lot of variables involved but I think the routing is pretty much straight-forward. Technically there really isn't any routing to speak of, all sample-related volumes are just multiplied with each other:

Final sample volume = Note volume * global sample volume * global instrument volume * channel volume * global volume * sample pre-amp
The same formula applies to OPL notes, except that they are multipled by the synth volume instead of the sample pre-amp. Note that OPL volumes are linear rather than logarithmic, so everything up to (and includling) the channel volume is logarithmic. Global volume and sample pre-amp are applied to the final mixed output, so they are linear just like with samples.

Of course if you route the sample through a plugin, then the result is multiplied by the plugin's gain factor as well. In this case it's also worth noting that the global volume is technically applied last, after going through any plugins. This distinction mostly matters for instrument plugins or plugins that otherwise add any sound to the incoming signal.

When using instrument plugins, their output is multiplied by the plugin gain factor as well as the synth volume value.

#29

Help and Questions / Re: Render volume level

Last post by peterpiper0815 - March 07, 2025, 14:45:11

I'm a bit confused about the levels too (well Routing / Gainstaging in general)

From what I know the level when you hit a key in the SAMPLE tab is related to the slider 'Sample Volume' in the GENERAL Tab.

BUT

There is a setting in -> Setup Menu -> General Tab -> No loud sample preview.
Depending on this setting you can enable/disable this relation (set = volume depends on Sample Volume Slider, unset = volume is played at max level 0dB)

In my case many VST(fx) are involved (I build myself a kind of mixer with a few EQs, Compressors, Reverb that are routed serial and then end up in a limiter) so the issue might be there. Have to dig deeper into the routing.

A kind of schematic / routing diagram of OpenMPT would help to understand

#30

Help and Questions / Render volume level

Last post by herodotas - March 06, 2025, 20:07:49

Hello,
Why I can't get the same volume level after I render track to sample. Result is always quieter. What I do wrong?