Author Topic: apc key 25 midi in only reliable in 64 bit OMPT  (Read 1612 times)

Offline Exhale

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apc key 25 midi in only reliable in 64 bit OMPT
« on: May 01, 2019, 05:15:10 »
Has anyone else encountered this problem?

I have an akai apc key 25 and it seems to not be reliable unless I use 64 bit modplug.
I didnt realise I was getting this limitation until right now. I opened my OMPT 32 bit hoping to make some music with my akai, it detects the midi controller but doesnt have the midi record on (I have that set to automatically on). I prefer to use the 32 bit because 99% of my vsts and vstis are in 32 bit, I go grab a vst and play, and nothing... then I go to check on the pattern and nothing.
Then I opened some other midi input software I have and I am receiving midi messages... confirming what modplug was telling me, that it is indeed there and detectable.
Then I thought, mostly on whimsy, to try out the 64 bit version, which I dont dont like using as much because then almost everything is bridged and some vsts and vstis dont even work, and wham it is receiving everything perfectly.
What is going on? Is there any way I can make it work properly in 32bit?

Thank you for your time and consideration.
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Offline manx

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Re: apc key 25 midi in only reliable in 64 bit OMPT
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2019, 08:16:03 »
I have no idea what's going on here.

I myself do own an Akai LPK25 mini. Trying to use it (on Windows 7) first failed outright the same way as you described (no midi input), for me in both OpenMPT 32bit and OpenMPT 64bit and other applications. I tried on a Windows 8.1 system. Worked. I tried again on Windows 7. Failed. I plugged in another midi device (EMU X-Board 25). This one worked. I unplugged it again, tried the Akai again. Now also works.

Just replugging the Akai initially did not change anything. I have always tried with multiple applications and OpenMPT both 32bit and 64bit. Always restarting applications after changing device, never rebooting Windows inbetween.

This honestly does not make much sense, and I am not sure what to recommend to you to try next.
Something is obviously flaky here though, on both your system, as well as mine.

Offline Exhale

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Re: apc key 25 midi in only reliable in 64 bit OMPT
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2019, 14:01:49 »
Thanks manx, at least I know I am not going insane... I suppose I am just going to have to resolve myself to use the midi controller in 64bit... I can change to 32 bit when I am done using my midi input. This is the only midi controller I have so it is a bit more frustrating in that regard.
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Offline Exhale

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Re: apc key 25 midi in only reliable in 64 bit OMPT
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2019, 10:47:24 »
Ok lock me up in the loony bin and give me a lovely jacket with straps, I re-arranged my usb inputs and went to go start coding in modplug, the usb for the apc key 25 is now in the opposite side of my laptop and now it only works in ompt 32 bit.
Yeehaw, slap my face and call me susan!

[edit] tried again a few minutes later and yay it's now only working in 64 bit again o_O O_o claps Morse code : insanity insanity

[edit2] now it is not getting messages from it at all, even though the oct up and oct down buttons go red and bome's midi translator is detecting everything>>> FFUUCK!
[edit2.1] for more clarity, midiox is picking up everything, velocities etc.
[edit2.2] yes I am using win 7, I dont want win8 or win10, I would rather go back to xp.

Guys there is obviously something wrong with how win 7 and modplug interpret midi input when combined or it is modplugs fault because everything else detects the inputs, I hope something can be fixed in a patch or something. If you need me to try things out I will happily help in getting rid of this horrible bug that is driving me insane.

[edit 3] and now it is working again with 64bit with no changes whatsoever to the usb setup... I am defeated
« Last Edit: May 14, 2019, 15:46:52 by Exhale »
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Offline Saga Musix

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Re: apc key 25 midi in only reliable in 64 bit OMPT
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2019, 18:28:42 »
Does it consistently work in MIDI-OX or fail randomly like in OpenMPT? It's hard to believe for me that of two programs accessing exactly the same Windows APIs, one would randomly not work while the other works consistently. I have used OpenMPT with many different USB MIDI devices and I haven't seen this kind of issue a single time.
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Offline Exhale

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Re: apc key 25 midi in only reliable in 64 bit OMPT
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2019, 03:51:04 »
yeah, every time it fails on modplug I check and it is picking everything up on midi-ox...
I have no clue about programming, but this was also happening on my desktop pc (edit : something very similar) which had win 7 pro on it, this laptop has win 7 home.
But I will keep midi-ox open from now on when modplug is on just to be completely sure that it isnt simply dropping the messages universally and only modplug is getting hung up on the temporary error or something.
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Offline Saga Musix

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Re: apc key 25 midi in only reliable in 64 bit OMPT
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2019, 06:38:35 »
Now we might be getting somewhere. The standard windows MIDI drivers only allow a single application to access a MIDI port at a given time. So if you say that MIDI-OX is picking up those MIDI events, do you mean it is doing that while OpenMPT still indicates that MIDI recording is running? If that is the case, OpenMPT is actually no longer recording MIDI, maybe because there was an error and the system decided to close the connection for OpenMPT. In that case the record button stays active but it's not really active anymore. As far as I remember Windows doesn't tell us about such events so maybe we have to periodically check if the connection is still OK and maybe re-open it in case of an error. Note: re-plugging a USB MIDI device will always close the MIDI connection.
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Offline Exhale

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Re: apc key 25 midi in only reliable in 64 bit OMPT
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2019, 21:08:43 »
Interesting, but I have to admit I thought something like this might be the case, which is why I havent had them both open at the same time yet, until I remember how to use the program to send the midi messages on...

I obviously didnt make myself properly understood, I have been opening midi ox or bome's midi translator after I find modplug isnt getting the signals.
I know from my previous computer that I can forward the midi signals out of these programs back into the system, but I do not remember enough of those programs to do so on this laptop and havent really bothered. Since most of what I was doing was getting the lights to work on the launch system above the keyboard and send keyboard commands through to modplug instead of midi data.

I seem to remember setting it up on the previous computer to send the midi messages from the keyboard itself as midi messages on to modplug and manually programming them at first with bome's and then finding out I did not need to do it.

It was damn useful being able to use the nobs as real time volume inputs etc and have the lights dynamically flicker as I muted, unmuted, set to record midi input and various other commands I could think of for each channel, but I can live without these things since even then I was getting horrible unreliable problems very similar to the ones I am describing here.

When I said I am defeated, I am...
I have concluded that midi input is just to complicated for me, and I will take what I can get when I can get it.
I dont know what I am doing even though I had managed to struggle my way very far previously. I just dont have the technical mind for this stuff.

'MIDI-OX is picking up those MIDI events, do you mean it is doing that while OpenMPT still indicates that MIDI recording is running' short answer - no, I am running them at seperate times, generally to check after modplug as stopped recieving the messages since I cannot remember how to use midi ox or bome's.

're-plugging a USB MIDI device will always close the MIDI connection.' I have noticed that if the physical connection from my midi device is interrupted (either a sensitive usb plug or the plug on my midi device{which hasnt been reliable from day one - I have it at a permanent angle stuck pretty firm with a bit of press-stick which holds well}) then I have to close and reopen modplug so maybe 'we have to periodically check if the connection is still OK and maybe re-open it in case of an error' could be a possible solution.

Sorry about the multiple brackets... maybe I should have used commas.
I admit I am tired.

Thank you for your attention Saga, this whole thing has really been bothering me, as you can hear through two PCs - over a few years now, and I love my little midi device despite its stated hang ups. Anything you make I could test out for you in any way at almost any time before a future release, I dont use other software for music production and I really only have this device to use it with modplug and I am hoping to use it my way... I didnt buy it, it was given to me as a gift...
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Offline Saga Musix

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Re: apc key 25 midi in only reliable in 64 bit OMPT
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2019, 21:17:22 »
You don't need to completely close and re-open OpenMPT to fix the problem. Just hitting the record button to disable recording and hitting it one more time to re-enable recording should also do the trick. Your troubles with keeping the physical connection alive might very much be the reason why OpenMPT keeps breaking, although I don't know why it would work more reliably in 64-bit builds. I have seen other reports online where people say that USB power management or bad chipset drivers can cause these kind of issues, but that might not be related as well. It's hard to tell.

Anyway, to be able to better understand what is going on, I have added some modifications that will visually depress the MIDI record button if OpenMPT realizes that it has lost the connection to the device. This can be tried out in build r11579 or later (soon available from https://builds.openmpt.org/builds/auto/openmpt/bin.win32/1.29/). It will now periodically enforce the system to communicate with the MIDI input driver, and if this fails due to the USB connection no longer being active, it will then disable MIDI recording. It will probably not solve your problem but it's a first step towards fixing it (which could mean automatically re-opening the device in the future). I'd be interested if you now keep seeing the button being unpressed automatically.
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Offline LPChip

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Re: apc key 25 midi in only reliable in 64 bit OMPT
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2019, 07:16:49 »
Ah, the good old usb powermanagement. This is actually something you can test by setting the Power Management to high-performance. If this is indeed the case, then doing this should make the problem vanish away.
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Offline Exhale

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Re: apc key 25 midi in only reliable in 64 bit OMPT
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2019, 07:36:37 »
I downloaded the new build and when I began hitting keys nothing, but then I did what you said and pressed off the midi record button and pressed it back on, and it worked - in 32 bit  :D

I am close to tears right now.
(I have had a bad day and seeing your reply made me feel a lot better, and the fact that it is working is making me feel so much better)
nope... I am crying.

Thanks dude, thank you so much.
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