Author Topic: Exx and Fxx portamento commands does not sound like the old MPT  (Read 16100 times)

Offline Jedinhopy

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The tempo is 250 and the speed is 1.
Portamento effects sounds best on Modplug tracker version 1.16.0203.

I am using 17castle.IT here.
.SPC -> .IT conversion.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2015, 23:12:02 by Jedinhopy »

Offline Saga Musix

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You could at least have provided a problematic example file to demonstrate the problem, but here are the two most common portamento-related problems that can be encountered with some old modplug versions:
- Portamento has recently been fixed to work more like in Impulse Tracker, which can lead to tiny differences in pitch when doing fine slides.
- "Normal" Portamento (that is, not Fine or Extra Fine Portamento) is not applied at speed 1 at all, as it only affects non-row ticks by definition.
Apart from that, I cannot give any more hints since my crystal ball is broken as always.
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Offline Saga Musix

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Thanks for providing the file, but next time please actually post in the thread so that I can notice it. Normally I don't look at threads unless there are unread posts.
The file sounds broken in both MPT 1.16 and the latest OpenMPT, but that's simply because it's an inaccurate OpenSPC conversion. I'm afraid you will have to live with that fact. Better listen to the original SPC file anyway.
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Offline Jedinhopy

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I wish OpenMPT version 1.24.04.00 to sound exactly the same as ModPlug Tracker version 1.16.0203.

Offline Saga Musix

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Unless you can show that OpenMPT's behaviour is wrong (i.e. not identical to Impulse Tracker), that won't happen. Nobody forces you to listen to this file with the latest version of OpenMPT, though. Just render it to a wav file and listen to it in your favorite audio player. Or, as said, listen to the SPC file the way it's meant to be listened to.
OpenSPC was written when Impulse Tracker was still the standard, not ModPlug Tracker, hence if some SPC conversion sounds "better" (whatever that may mean) to you in MPT than it does in Impulse Tracker, this is by pure coincidence and not intentional.
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Offline Jedinhopy

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Just render it to a wav file and listen to it in your favorite audio player.
But Modplug Tracker version 1.16.0203 does not have this wave export feature:
Channel mode (one file per channel).

Offline Saga Musix

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Then I'm afraid you will have to Solo the channels one by one and do 8 manual exports. Or, as said, listen to the original SPC file the way it's meant to sound. Why do you even insist on listening to the IT version? From what I can tell, it sounds off-key in some parts in both MPT 1.16 and OpenMPT.
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Offline Jedinhopy

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Then I'm afraid you will have to Solo the channels one by one and do 8 manual exports.
But it automatically normalizes the volume on the exported wave file.

Quote
Normalize Output.
Can't be disabled in ModPlug Tracker version 1.16.0203.

Offline Saga Musix

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Yes you can. You just have to untick the "Normalize Output" checkbox.
And I'm asking again, why on earth would you want to listen to the output of an SPC to IT conversion rather than the original SPC file? The IT version completely broken, no matter if you play it with MPT 1.16 or OpenMPT. I just compared it against the original SPC file from Super Mario World and sure enough, the IT file is detuned like hell in MPT.
If you really want to listen to this song, grab the SPCs from here and download a proper SPC player.
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Offline Jedinhopy

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And download a proper SPC player.
Meridian advance.

Offline Jedinhopy

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Re: Exx and Fxx portamento commands does not sound like the old MPT
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2015, 16:38:44 »
I wish OpenMPT version 1.24.04.00 to sound exactly the same as ModPlug Tracker version 1.16.0203.

Unless you can show that OpenMPT's behaviour is wrong (i.e. not identical to Impulse Tracker), that won't happen.
So OpenMPT will only sound like impulse tracker and not modplug tracker?

The old version of modplug tracker which dates back to 2002 is version 1.16.0203.
And i am correct that it does not sound like impulse tracker there because otherwise OpenMPT 1.24.04.00 would not sound any different.

And playing the 17castle.IT song in Winamp 5.04.
Patterns 24, 25 and 26 gets a vibrato effect while in modplug tracker version 1.16.0203
there is no vibrato in that section.

00:48 to 00:53 in winamp.

----------------------------------------------------

Patterns 20 to 26 sounds wrong in OpenMPT 1.24.04.00.
But sounds better on ModPlug Tracker version 1.16.0203.

I like the pitch modulations that happens in the second half of pattern 0.
Sound more fun to listen to in modplug tracker version 1.16.0203 than in OpenMPT 1.24.04.00.
Because portamento effects Exx and Fxx behaves differently between the old modplugtracker compared to the new modplugtracker.

And since winamp can play .IT files too and not only modplugtracker and OpenMPT.
It's now a part of the bandwagon too.

I wish OpenMPT to have a feature in where the user of the program can those which .IT file player to sound like.

Any program that plays .IT files will not sound like the other .IT file players.
OpenMPT should be able to mimic all of them.

Having a playback mode select list so that it sounds like that tracker or .IT file player

Offline Saga Musix

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Re: Exx and Fxx portamento commands does not sound like the old MPT
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2015, 19:27:27 »
The old version of modplug tracker which dates back to 2002 is version 1.16.0203.
And i am correct that it does not sound like impulse tracker there because otherwise OpenMPT 1.24.04.00 would not sound any different.
To be a bit more verbose, OpenMPT generally tries to be compatible with ModPlug Tracker's quirks as much as possible, however:
1) There are a few things which are just infeasible to stay compatible, such as the improved-accuracy portamento effects.
2) Even if this module was not affected by those infeasible compatibility attempts, OpenMPT will still try to play it like Impulse Tracker would and not like ModPlug Tracker would, because the module was saved with OpenSPC. OpenMPT will generally only try to stay compatible with ModPlug Tracker if the original file was created with ModPlug Tracker. Otherwise, maximum Impulse Tracker compatibility is assumed.

And playing the 17castle.IT song in Winamp 5.04.
Winamp uses a playback engine that has not been updated in over 15 years and is thus completely out of discussion.

Patterns 20 to 26 sounds wrong in OpenMPT 1.24.04.00.
But sounds better on ModPlug Tracker version 1.16.0203.
I have said this several times now: These patterns sound both wrong in ModPlug Tracker and OpenMPT. They are completely off-key in both trackers, and do not sound like the original SPC file at all. This is due to the SPC to IT conversion being inaccurate. Why do you even try to argue about that?

Sound more fun to listen to in modplug tracker version 1.16.0203 than in OpenMPT 1.24.04.00.
For accurate playback it doesn't matter what sounds "more fun" to you.

Because portamento effects Exx and Fxx behaves differently between the old modplugtracker compared to the new modplugtracker.
Yes, there are slight differences as said before, however since the file wasn't created with ModPlug Tracker, there is not even a point in assuming ModPlug-compatible playback for this file.

And since winamp can play .IT files too and not only modplugtracker and OpenMPT.
It's now a part of the bandwagon too.
Also as said before, Winamp has a horrible and outdated mod playback plugin which I am not going to discuss about.

I wish OpenMPT to have a feature in where the user of the program can those which .IT file player to sound like.
If you want the sound of a certain program, then do use that program and not make my life hard. The only thing I will emulate are old ModPlug versions if appropriate and Impulse Tracker (for IT files). And certainly NOT Winamp.

OpenMPT should be able to mimic all of them.
No. If that is your goal, please stop posting because it's not going to happen. If anything, I will emulate quirks of other trackers (like Impulse Tracker), and not of other players, since modules are not written in players. If a module sounds wrong in a player, the player needs to be fixed, not all other trackers.
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Offline Jedinhopy

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Re: Exx and Fxx portamento commands does not sound like the old MPT
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2015, 20:41:16 »
1) There are a few things which are just infeasible to stay compatible, such as the improved-accuracy portamento effects.
This.

Offline Saga Musix

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Re: Exx and Fxx portamento commands does not sound like the old MPT
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2015, 22:01:15 »
I have no idea what you want to tell me but it seems that you agree with me that it simply doesn't make sense to support these old ModPlug inaccuracies (or you didn't get what I was trying to say at all)
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Offline Jedinhopy

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Re: Exx and Fxx portamento commands does not sound like the old MPT
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2015, 06:26:13 »
Doesn't make sense to support these old ModPlug inaccuracies.
So this is never going to happen?