Author Topic: mixer question  (Read 5771 times)

Offline inemuri1985

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mixer question
« on: November 28, 2014, 16:42:23 »
hi there. i am new to mpt.

when i put an effect in the mixer section, and select it for a certain track some strange things happen. sometimes it works, and other times it doesnt. is this a normal issue or am i doing something wrong.

for example if i have a delay plugin for channel 1 and 2, and not on channel 3-4 etc. what is the proper setting for having the plug active on 1 and 2 ?

if i press master it will be on the entire track.. but i of course want it only for some tracks..

sorry if this is very noob. if someone has time to explain how vst effects work properly would be awesome.


Offline Saga Musix

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Re: mixer question
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2014, 17:28:40 »
No worries about your confusion, it's kind of justified. Channel and instrument plugins do not mix very well together, so I would advise you to only assign plugins to instruments. This will avoid a lot of confusion.
In essence, instrument plugins are never routed to channel plugins, unless the plugin's "output to:" plugin happens to be the same as channel plugin of course. Why is that? Well, simply because an instrument plugin's output cannot be "split up". Suppose you have this setup:
- Instrument 1 is assigned to some VSTi
- Channel 1 sends its output to VST effect 1
- Channel 2 sends its output to VST effect 2
Now you trigger a note with instrument 1 on both channel 1 and channel 2. What should happen now? Both notes from channel 1 and 2 are processed inside the VSTi and both end up in its output. Now OpenMPT cannot distinguish between the two notes anymore, i.e. there is no way to send note 1 to effect 1 and note 2 to effect 2. So in this case, the VSTi's output is sent directly to the master, and not to one of the channel plugins.
As mentioned before, my advice would be to directly assign all plugins to instruments, and never to channels.

This limitation is not unique to OpenMPT btw. Renoise uses for example a slightly different approach which avoids this exact scenario, but if you trigger for example some VSTi on two different channels, Renoise's channel scopes will only display something on one of the two channels, since it cannot figure out which part of the plugin's audio output belongs to which channel.
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Offline inemuri1985

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Re: mixer question
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2014, 17:47:30 »
thanks! i am used to the method where you put an effect on a mixer track from fl studio.

can i ask you what steps you would take to assign an effect to a specific instrument, and not to a channel?

sometimes i have been confused with the function of the channels as well, since sometimes the volume slider works, and sometimes not. if it does not work, maybe i have not assigned it to a channel (goes directly to master by default?). i have only messed about with mpt for about a week.

and also (another noob question) ; what is the significant difference between instrument and sample ? should i only load samples into instrument channels for tidyness?

(sorry if im not clear.. thanks for the tips)  :)

Offline Saga Musix

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Re: mixer question
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2014, 17:55:27 »
thanks! i am used to the method where you put an effect on a mixer track from fl studio.
I'm not very familiar with it, but most DAWs which aren't trackers only allow you to put an instrument on one specific channel, right? This is different in trackers like OpenMPT where an instrument can be put on any channels. VST was not made with such functionality in mind, hence it makes things a bit confusing in applications like OpenMPT.

can i ask you what steps you would take to assign an effect to a specific instrument, and not to a channel?
For building plugin chains, use the "output to:" functionality found in the plugin settings. Note that for this to work, the target plugin has to reside in a slot with a higher number (e.g. FX1 can send its output to FX2 but not vice versa).

sometimes i have been confused with the function of the channels as well, since sometimes the volume slider works, and sometimes not. if it does not work, maybe i have not assigned it to a channel (goes directly to master by default?). i have only messed about with mpt for about a week.
For that I would need to know which volume slider you mean. :) Most volume-related settings will only affect samples, not VSTis at the moment. That is, if you want to change a plugin's volume, you can't do this through the channel volume slider (if that's the volume slider you were referring to), for exactly the same reasons as in my first reply.

and also (another noob question) ; what is the significant difference between instrument and sample ? should i only load samples into instrument channels for tidyness?
An instrument is a layer on top of samples; in old module formats you only have samples, not instruments. In OpenMPT, an instrument can contain both samples and plugins, so if you are going to use plugins, you will have to make use of instruments anyway. On the other hand, if you only use samples and don't require the additional features provided by instruments such as panning and volume envelopes, you are safe to stick to samples exclusively. You can always upgrade a sample-only song to use instruments at a later point in time.
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Offline inemuri1985

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Re: mixer question
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2014, 18:08:23 »
thank you for responding so quickly !

i might come back and ask some more if thats ok

thanks.

Offline Saga Musix

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Re: mixer question
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2014, 20:18:21 »
Sure, this is what the help forum is intended for. :)
Don't be afraid to search OpenMPT's huge manual before posting, though.
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Offline inemuri1985

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Re: mixer question
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2014, 14:38:06 »
thanks. i tried the manual but i still dont get it 100 %.

if you have the time, could you do a walkthrough on how to put an effect on a vst synth ?

it works well for samples, but not for vst instruments. so i must be doing something wrong.

thnx

Offline Saga Musix

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Re: mixer question
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2014, 15:17:53 »
As said, you will have to change the Output to setting fort the VSTi. There's nothing else to do. Just keep in mind that the effect has to be a slot with a higher ID than the instrument.
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Offline inemuri1985

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Re: mixer question
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2014, 15:40:03 »
ok i think i understand the hierarcy. the vst reverb has to be in fx slot 20 and the synt in fx slot 10 for example?

but i get no options for output on various synths.. only default or master as an option. maybe i am looking in the wrong place?

i did try the manual but this is the one thing i dont get right now..

thanks for helping though. !

Offline Saga Musix

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Re: mixer question
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2014, 15:46:02 »
You will only get Default as an option if there are no other plugins further down in the list. So if you have your synth in FX100 but all effects are in FX1-FX99, you won't see them there (because these would be imposible choices).
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Offline inemuri1985

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Re: mixer question
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2014, 16:03:19 »
hmm. i have a synt in fx 1 and an effect in fx 2

that should work ? but i still only get default as an option.  :'(


Offline Saga Musix

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Re: mixer question
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2014, 16:42:06 »
Just to be sure, did you really check the "Output to" dropdown list of the synth and not the effect? You will see any plugin that's in a slot with a higher number in that dropdown list, it's simply impossible that it wouldn't show up there.
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Offline inemuri1985

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Re: mixer question
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2014, 17:00:30 »
now i got it !

thanks a bunch. i was looking in the wrong place.

this is superb. thanks  ;D