[sound] Centaur's Pasture (mp3 / online)

[uncloned]

I did a piece in Kraig Grady's Centaur tuning.

The format is piano and flute. The piano is pianoteq and the flute is Kontakt 4. Both were run through lexicon room reverb.

The piece is sound that changes with respect to time in varying degrees.

You can download it here:

http://notonlymusic.com/board/download/file.php?id=1214

or listen online and find a link to the tuning here:

http://notonlymusic.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=523&start=0

Thanks,

Chris

[Harbinger]

Notes as i'm listening:

First off, the flute part can be pushed back a little, unless you're going for the 1st person sound. (It sounds like i'm not listening but playing it!)

I want to say that the the song seems anti-melodic, but upon further listening, it's just that the melody refuses to adhere to the traditional rules for melody. I want to say that the song design seems uninspired, but perhaps the style is supposed to be "non-catchy." It's also quite interesting that practically all the flute notes are kept in as low a register as possible; the colors i get are brown and beige and maybe light blue, rather than yellow, bright green, and ultramarine that you get with most flute parts. And do i hear some Just Intonation?

The piano base is nice and quiet, unassuming, just providing some support for the flute to wander over, like a parent watching her child play in the public playground. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) the piano timbre is TOO good, the temperament is perfect and artificial. I suppose only my ears would pick that up though, but for everyone else it's not at all distracting.

The piece is very relaxing and aptly titled, very visual in its evocation and very sensitive in its emotion.

[LPChip]

Typing as I listen.

The flute and the piano sometimes seem a bit off-tone, which for new age music is a bit wrong, as it disturbs the moment of getting in touch with yourself.

Basically the song should vibrate on your body and make you dream away. And while doing that, it should be telling a story. Though this song is a bit sad, it does tell a story.

It has some classical breaks in it, where the piano stops and the flute continues, this is actually not done in New Age because it leads you away from the dream, but I suppose as I'm not in touch with myself due to the slightly off-tone, no harm is done.

The song itself aside from these points is nice, and I would say that this is a great effort. You've tried new age before and failed when I pointed out that it was just classical. This is a very good attempt at new age, if I may say so.

[uncloned]

then... instead of New Age I'll call it Just Intonation classical and your objections no longer apply :-)

[uncloned]

Notes as i'm listening:

And do i hear some Just Intonation?

The entire piece is in Just Intonation.

Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) the piano timbre is TOO good,

I consider that a bizarre statement because pianoteq physical modeling is renowned for realism. I personally can't tell the difference when I close my eyes and play.  http://www.musicplayers.com/reviews/keyboard/2007/0607_Pianoteq.php

the temperament is perfect and artificial.

Please define artificial temperament.

And note, being in Just Intonation tuning this piece doesn't use *any* tempering - so it is not in a temperament at all.

I suppose only my ears would pick that up though, but for everyone else it's not at all distracting.

The whole point was to use pure harmonies instead of the compromise of 12 equal with its ugly sharp thirds.

The piece is very relaxing and aptly titled, very visual in its evocation and very sensitive in its emotion.

Thanks for that. As usual I named it after I was done :-)

[LPChip]

then... instead of New Age I'll call it Just Intonation classical and your objections no longer apply :-)

Actually, its more New Age than Classical

But oh well. X)

[uncloned]

It certainly didn't sound like it with a paragraph of where the piece wasn't New Age as it seems you have authoritative expertise in the New Age genre.

And to be honest - I really don't give a damn about genres. The format here requests a genre. So I tried.

I won't even claim this is music.

The only goal here is to make sounds that change with respect to time by varying degrees. It is up to you to like it or not.

[uncloned]

then... instead of New Age I'll call it Just Intonation classical and your objections no longer apply :-)

Actually, its more New Age than Classical

But oh well. X)

New Age Classical Cross Over anti-Hip Hop Electronically Generated artificial temperament non-fusion?

[LPChip]

LOL

I only gave you the feedback so you can learn from it for a next song.

But I must give you credit for having a good sense of humor

[uncloned]

I really have *no* interest in following the *rules* for a genre.

As far as I'm concerned that is letting someone else make decisions for me and that is *not* why I compose. All a genre consists of is a series of pre-conceived rules which equates to compositional decisions.

I know there are people who wish to make the *perfect* song in some *genre* that *lots* of people want to listen to and hopefully want to buy.

My interest is way way different. My compositions are mostly experiments - challenges - a "can I use this?" or "can I do this?".

In this case wanted to try to make a song in a new tuning and considering what the improvisation ended up being I prettied it up because the tune seemed to want that treatment. I became interested in the tuning after it was discussed for over a week on the Yahoo alternate tunings list.

Accepting critiques is something that goes along with the act of posting something to the public on the internet or otherwise. However, that doesn't mean the critique is valid in my frame of reference. Harbinger is missing a whole lot of background (a link was provided) and you seem to be talking double-speak about a piece you say is and isn't New Age.

I really do appreciate the listen and comments  - even though you gotta realize both original comments are kind of ludicrous and make no points that even a newbie could use to fix something.

The question I wish to pose to you both by posting music here would be:

Does it work as a piece of music for you?

If so great!

If not, oh well... sorry I wasted your time.

Editorial:
My general feeling is that this forum is heading to a place where only modplug compositions will be accepted. Perhaps that would not be a bad thing. It might inspire me to fire up modplug a bit more. All you have to do is require a link to the modplug source.

[LPChip]

Yeah, it does work as a piece of music for me, though I got a bit distracted by the tuning.

[uncloned]

understandable. I imagine microtonal tunings are probably even more difficult for some with perfect pitch (assuming you do not have that).

Myself, at this time, I can find harmonies that sound purer to my ears but of course they are different - otherwise there's no point in doing it.

Thanks for the listen and comment.

chris

[LPChip]

(assuming you do not have that).

I have. Could also be the issue here

And you're welcome.

[Harbinger]

the temperament is perfect and artificial.

Please define artificial temperament.

I'm sure you've played at a real piano, so let me remind you of your own experiences....
There is NO human tuning that can perfectly line up the harmonics of a piano string. It's physically impossible, and may not even be due to the tuning, but where on the string it is struck. Even in a very well-tuned piano string, over the decay of the struck note, the oscillation of the off-harmony becomes apparent after a few seconds. I liken it to a sort of "harmonic flanging."
For example, you can hear the obvious difference in the waveform cycles when two notes of the same pitch (but one note is severely off-key by a few cents) are struck at exactly the same time (another impossible event). As you bend the pitch of the off-key note towards the correct pitch, you hear the combined harmonic oscillation become closer and closer in their cycles.
The same is true for the harmonics of a single piano note. Since their harmonics are not perfect in a real piano, this oscillation occurs between the single notes own overtones and the root pitch.
I can hear it. To me it's distinct and clear, and lends to the richness of both and harpsichord sounds.
I can also tell when these harmonic differences are NOT present, such as in a cleaned-up piano sample. If you can't hear what i'm talking about, play the piano part at a real piano (if possible) and see if you can tell the difference....

BTW, artificial piano temperament is not necessarily bad, unless you are going for an absolutely realistic sound. This piece is still good on its own merits, no matter who or what plays it... :wink:

[uncloned]

I'm sorry - I  disagree on so many points.

1. You are using temperament in a way that is different from its definition recognized by most musicians. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_temperament

2. What you are talking about is inharmonicity. Follow the piano tuning link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_tuning and look for the word.

3. Pianoteq does take inharmonicity, stretched octaves, etc. into account because it's synthesis is based on a  complete physical model of the piano.

4. Pianoteq is even better than a complete multi-level piano sample set (which of course would *also* take inharmonicity into account.) One of the things so very realistic that I can do is softly hold down keys and then play a chord  sforzando and staccato above it. Like a real piano the harmonics will ring in the silently depressed keys. http://www.pianoteq.com/

5. There is no such thing as an "artificial" temperament.  Like pregnancy a tuning  either is or isn't a temperament.