Author Topic: Tuning for VSTi's (finetune) possible?  (Read 24881 times)

Offline LPChip

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Tuning for VSTi's (finetune) possible?
« on: January 19, 2009, 23:02:35 »
The new MPTM format has the ability to have custom tuning for your samples. I was wondering if its possible to somehow finetune the output of VSTi's notes that are sent through midi.

I'll explain the reasoning behind it.

As of world war 2, hitler has set the music standard to work on 440 hz for the basenote. This used to be 432hz.

I find 432hz to give a much warmer sound and I'd like to start developing songs using this 432 hz standard instead of the default 440.

To give a good example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rm67Ww0xZ8I (this song is made on the 432hz frequency and it grabs me alot more than another song on 440hz. (example 440hz song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uy_ow5opjdM )

I could ofcource use samples and I'd have it fixed. Just tune everything around the 432 and done. Unfortunatelly for me, I use VSTi's alot.

So my question is: is it possible to somehow alter the sound of modplug so it outputs at 432hz instead of 440hz?
"Heh, maybe I should've joined the compo only because it would've meant I wouldn't have had to worry about a damn EQ or compressor for a change. " - Atlantis
"yes.. I think in this case it was wishful thinking: MPT is makng my life hard so it must be wrong" - Rewbs

Offline Saga Musix

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Tuning for VSTi's (finetune) possible?
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2009, 23:07:58 »
"sounding warmer" doesn't have to mean anything, really, it's just because it's different from what you hear under normal conditions. Same thing happens to me if I transpose my own pieces of music up a 1 to 3 semitones, it often sounds warmer.
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Offline LPChip

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Tuning for VSTi's (finetune) possible?
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2009, 23:22:17 »
Quote from: "Jojo"
"sounding warmer" doesn't have to mean anything, really, it's just because it's different from what you hear under normal conditions. Same thing happens to me if I transpose my own pieces of music up a 1 to 3 semitones, it often sounds warmer.


Actually there's a deeper meaning behind this. 432hz is a natural frequency on which our body energy (chacra's) fibrate. Its a universal frequency, and the theory is that when listening music on this standard, it'll touch you more than on 440hz.

But I gladly like to hand out a good comparison example if I am somehow able to get it to work at 432hz.

Hmm... You know what, for this occasion, I'll make a chiptune in 2 versions. one at 440hz and one at 432hz. You can then judge it yourself.

I'll do this in the upcoming days. I already downloaded NCH Tone Generator to hear the actual difference and 432hz is more pleasing to listen to than the 440hz one. Atleast thats my opinion.

But that doesn't stop this question from keeping in my mind though. Is there any way I would be able to detune/finetune the output of everything in OpenMPT? or just somehow change the frequency notes are being transmitted through midi to the VSTi's?

I dunno if the frequencies are sent or actual notes. I actually hope for frequencies.
"Heh, maybe I should've joined the compo only because it would've meant I wouldn't have had to worry about a damn EQ or compressor for a change. " - Atlantis
"yes.. I think in this case it was wishful thinking: MPT is makng my life hard so it must be wrong" - Rewbs

Offline Saga Musix

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Tuning for VSTi's (finetune) possible?
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2009, 23:25:51 »
You can override the playback frequency on some cards (like mine), but that way, I can't make that small differences. For example, if modplug is running at 48khz, i can slow it down to 44khz. it will be slower and lower, nothing else. I think you can't apply this to VSTs without slowing the whole processing down, since you send midi messages to them. many vsts should have a finetune slider, though.
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Offline Sam_Zen

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Tuning for VSTi's (finetune) possible?
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2009, 23:41:30 »
OT - hm, 432 is indeed a more natural one with a base number of 3, than 440 with 5 and 11.
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Offline bvanoudtshoorn

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Tuning for VSTi's (finetune) possible?
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2009, 03:13:31 »
VSTis receive MIDI note numbers, so unless the instrument itself has a finetune facility, I'm afraid this is no dice. FWIW, Kontakt can finetune... :)

Offline LPChip

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Tuning for VSTi's (finetune) possible?
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2009, 06:52:04 »
Hmm... I might have to restrain myself from using VSTi's then.

I've decided that the example case won't be a chiptune. I have planned to make a C64 remix and I can do that with samples only. So this will be a perfect testcase to demonstrate the differences between a 440hz base and 432hz base.
"Heh, maybe I should've joined the compo only because it would've meant I wouldn't have had to worry about a damn EQ or compressor for a change. " - Atlantis
"yes.. I think in this case it was wishful thinking: MPT is makng my life hard so it must be wrong" - Rewbs

Offline Saga Musix

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Tuning for VSTi's (finetune) possible?
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2009, 08:41:26 »
Quote from: "Sam_Zen"
OT - hm, 432 is indeed a more natural one with a base number of 3, than 440 with 5 and 11.

But this again is just stuff that humans made up, the "magic" numbers...
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Offline Sam_Zen

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Tuning for VSTi's (finetune) possible?
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2009, 09:03:25 »
well, I don't believe in  "magic" numbers, but some things are just natural physics, like doubling the freq. for an octave.
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Offline Saga Musix

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Tuning for VSTi's (finetune) possible?
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2009, 09:09:52 »
That's true, but then again, I don't consider that as a "magic" number. Splitting every number into as many "magic numbers" (like 2, 3, 7, 12, etc.) is just silly.
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Offline LPChip

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Tuning for VSTi's (finetune) possible?
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2009, 10:47:41 »
Honestly,

I don't want this topic to turn into if its right or wrong or special or what not about using 432hz instead of 440hz. I just want to write music using this standard. If I need to give an argument other than the previous ones, then it is this: I want to do it differently.

But I'm not looking for a debate about the 440hz vs 432hz standard, I'm just looking for a way to change this. Any help would be appreciated.

I've considered the ability to render to wav and somehow alter the wav file.

Btw, changing the frequency from 48khz to 44khz doesn't change the sound at all or not desirable. When I play it together with a sine on 440hz I hear no difference in tone.
"Heh, maybe I should've joined the compo only because it would've meant I wouldn't have had to worry about a damn EQ or compressor for a change. " - Atlantis
"yes.. I think in this case it was wishful thinking: MPT is makng my life hard so it must be wrong" - Rewbs

Offline Saga Musix

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Tuning for VSTi's (finetune) possible?
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2009, 14:44:49 »
I never said that you should change the playback frequency in modplug or the wav renderer. You can't do this on any devices (and soundblasters certainly are _not_ included in that list :P), but f.e. on my soundcard, you can alter the playback frequency of the buffer to something different than the frequency specified by the application that's currently using the soundcard.
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Offline Sam_Zen

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Tuning for VSTi's (finetune) possible?
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2009, 18:15:22 »
Right on LPChip, that's why I called my mathematical remark 'off-topic' in the first place.
Now I've been called senseless and silly so far, so I'll pass again.
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Offline Saga Musix

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Tuning for VSTi's (finetune) possible?
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2009, 19:00:37 »
I didn't call you silly, and you even distanced yourself from "magic" numbers in your previous post. I just don't like people who try to find out where there is one of those numbers like 3 - the holy number, 4 - the earth, etc. in other numbers.
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Offline älskling

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Tuning for VSTi's (finetune) possible?
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2009, 20:13:12 »
I think most good VSTs allows for detuning.

Off Topic: So long, and thanks for all the fish.