Author Topic: global volume for vsti and other misleads  (Read 693 times)

Offline ociebieda

  • Shy artist
  • Posts: 1
global volume for vsti and other misleads
« on: April 12, 2021, 00:07:40 »
global volume for vsti and other misleads

First of all, I am a big fan of MPT since 20 years, so do not get me wrong, it is great software.
And yes, I know that technically, it is not possible to get as much control over VSTi as for samples.

I want to talk about general volume and pan of VSTi instruments, so very basic thing.
Yes, sure, you can control it in most VSTi.
What about when you are going to tweak your almost finished mix with lots drum samples and VSTi instruments?
This one too loud, this one too quiet, and this one needs some panning.

Scenario 1.
Volume command handling: None
Volume commands with note are velocities: On
|C-501......
|E-501......
|G-501......
|C-601......
Results:
Global volume of instrument works, velocity works, pan (all 3 options: in Instrument tab, as volume command, as effect type) is not working.
Ok, lets go to Mix Settings at General tab then, there should be Mix Mode for panning to use with wet dry, but well, it is not available for VSTi.

Scenario 2.
Volume command handling: None
Volume commands with note are velocities: On
|C-501......
|E-501v32...
|G-501v16...
|C-601v08...
Results:
Surprise, changing global volume works for notes with no volume only, so putting it much lower, will make that notes quieter than ones with volume, breaking original dynamics or (non plugin) delay like effects.
Changing volume command handling to other options does not change the thing.
Alright, so the only soluction (except using volume built inside plugins), is to use Gain in Mix Settings.
The thing is, that it uses precision of 10%, if you want to lower volume, which actually is not enough in most cases (I use 1-2 point precision of global volume for samples, and believe, choice between 38 or 40 or 42, makes noticeable difference for too loud and too quiet).
I believe it would be more usable to give half for lower volume and half for higher with better precision for a cost of max 2x volume instead of 8x (sure, I could lower volume in plugin to get better precision in MPT, but such play does not sound fun).
Ok, the last option I found is to use wet dry slider, which did the trick, but I am not sure its purpose (if panning would work for VSTi here, then I could not even control both, global volume and pan at the same time).
Edit: Well, this was also not good enough solution.
It conflicts with volume command handling wet dry option in following scenario:
|C-501......
|.....v32...
|.....v16...
|.....v08...
Volume command handling will change wet dry slider.
Manual tweak for global volume will be lost.
Edit2: Additional thing, using volume command handling with midi or wet dry, is making even more mess.
|C-501v64...
|.....v32...
|C-601v64...
|.....v32...
Next note after making non note volume change, will play at changed volume.

What is the point?
I was thinking about finishing mixes in comfortable way, like with samples, easily and quickly tweaking global volume and eventually pan in instruments tab, instead of playing games with opening various plugins or jumping between instruments tab for samples and general tab plus vst scrolling for wet dry slider.
Why global volume and pan in instruments tab is not working like wet dry for vst instruments?
Technically, it just need to modify output signal and thats all.

« Last Edit: April 12, 2021, 12:04:33 by ociebieda »

Offline Saga Musix

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Re: global volume for vsti and other misleads
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2021, 20:59:17 »
Quote
Why global volume and pan in instruments tab is not working like wet dry for vst instruments?
Technically, it just need to modify output signal and thats all.
It stops being simple once you play more than one note at a time. I know it's all not very usable at the moment, but the fundamental differences between the tracking and MIDI world don't make it easy to find a good solution that suits everyone and also stays backwards-compatible.

However, what I think could be a practical improvement for plugin (and also sample) usage could be a built-in plugin that does nothing more than gain and panning. This plugin could be put at the end of every signal chain and allow for fine volume and pan adjustments. Do you think that would be a useful solution for you?

I think it could also make sense to allow for the balance mixmode to be used for instrument plugins as you mentioned. The other mixmodes don't make any sense for plugins so I suppose that this is why historically this dropdown has never been available to instrument plugins; but it shouldn't be a problem to have just "Normal" and "LR Balance" available for instruments.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2021, 21:02:51 by Saga Musix »
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