The new FM support is awesome!!

Domarius · March 12, 2019, 03:24:59

I just wanted to congratulate Saga Musix for implementing FM support. I just updated and played the "Yuzu - Yu-Lib" song and it sounds just like listening to the Adlib music from the 90's DOS games. That OPL chip has a distinct sound (if weak percussion, hahah) and I love it.

Saga Musix · March 13, 2019, 11:34:50

Thanks for the thanks

LPChip · March 13, 2019, 14:18:49

If you use the mptm fileformat you are not limited to the 9 channel limit. Doubling up the drums will make them very powerful.

Saga Musix · March 13, 2019, 19:35:55

The number of channels doesn't really change the fact that two-operator (or even four-operator) FM modulation produces very weak drum sounds. I'd say it's a very well-known limitation that is best compensated with small drum samples (like on the Sega Megadrive).

YuzuMSX · March 13, 2019, 20:43:12

Lol, thanks OwO

Domarius · March 14, 2019, 05:08:03

Quote from: Saga Musix on March 13, 2019, 19:35:55
The number of channels doesn't really change the fact that two-operator (or even four-operator) FM modulation produces very weak drum sounds. I'd say it's a very well-known limitation that is best compensated with small drum samples (like on the Sega Megadrive).

Ah yes it does, that's something I only learned recently, since we didn't own a Megadrive (SNES was better

) so I had limited exposure, but I'm facinated by all the retro consoles now and re-living stuff I missed out on at the time. And I'm finding that I love the sound of the Megadrive FM chip - it can't do "real" sounds like the SNES, but because it's a higher sampling rate (sure I've got the wrong term there) the sound is richer and clearer, and any good funky bass guitar type instruments on the Megadrive just simply can't be replicated as well on the SNES.

Quote from: YuzuMSX on March 13, 2019, 20:43:12
Lol, thanks OwO

Ah, hi

That song sounded to me like it could have been in a 90's DOS game, or demoscene intro, it was very nostalgic for me. I hope you make more sometime.

YuzuMSX · March 14, 2019, 05:14:25

Quote from: Domarius on March 14, 2019, 05:08:03
Ah, hi That song sounded to me like it could have been in a 90's DOS game, or demoscene intro, it was very nostalgic for me. I hope you make more sometime.

Hey. You can listen more songs with this link
http://battleofthebits.org/barracks/Profile/JonKaruzu/AllEntry

Seriously the Ad-lib Had 9Channels (2-Op) also Ad-Lib Gold had 18 channels also 4Op mode divide to 6.
Sorry idk

Domarius · March 15, 2019, 12:05:07

Quote from: YuzuMSX on March 14, 2019, 05:14:25
Hey. You can listen more songs with this link
http://battleofthebits.org/barracks/Profile/JonKaruzu/AllEntry

Seriously the Ad-lib Had 9Channels (2-Op) also Ad-Lib Gold had 18 channels also 4Op mode divide to 6.
Sorry idk

Oh cool! I'll be listening to those while I work...

I remember hearing that the Adlib Gold had more channels, but I also remember that no games used them, hahah. Funny that it took till 30 years later for people to be composing songs with that many FM channels, in OpenMPT

Saga Musix · March 15, 2019, 12:57:47

Well, even back then there were games that made use of the OPL3 chip (with 18 voices), but OPL2 (9 voices) was more common as it was the lowest common denominator. OPL3 or compatible can be found in SB16 onwards and in many clones, but older SoundBlasters only had OPL2 (or dual OPL2) support and writing soundtracks for both OPL chips was probably not worth the effort. Some games with MIDI-based music supported both, by having two different drivers to translate the MIDI commands.

Domarius · March 17, 2019, 23:44:11

Yes, I found you could nearly always tell whether the composer designed the music for MIDI or FM, and then added support for the other. Music made for MIDI could be very orchestral, and the FM version sounded weak in comparison, eg. Ultima 8: Pagan.
Music made for FM had the instruments perfectly tweaked to sound a certain way, and then the MIDI version missed those subtleties and so didn't sound as good even though it used "digital instruments" which theoretically should be better., eg. Tyrian.

nikku4211 · March 18, 2019, 20:45:55

Quote from: Domarius on March 12, 2019, 03:24:59
I just wanted to congratulate Saga Musix for implementing FM support. I just updated and played the "Yuzu - Yu-Lib" song and it sounds just like listening to the Adlib music from the 90's DOS games. That OPL chip has a distinct sound (if weak percussion, hahah) and I love it.

Yeah, thanks SaGa. U.U

I've had the most fun messing with square waves and remixing the boss battle theme from Final Fantasy Legend 2 for the Game Boy. It's cool that OPL instruments take up so little space even when compared to extremely tiny looped samples. It's also cool that you can recreate that $1 toy piano from those memes almost perfectly in FM.

Also, SaGa, is this FM emulation for OPL2 or OPL3? Because squares, even period sines, even period absolute sines, and 'derived squares' are supported in OpenMPT even in S3M format, and those waveforms are not in OPL2. Are those extra OPL3 waveforms supported in the actual Scream Tracker 3? And I know OPL3 is backwards compatible.

Saga Musix · March 18, 2019, 22:01:03

The emulated chip is OPL3. ST3 only has OPL2 support, so it does not support those extra waveforms that you mentioned, but you can use them e.g. in SchismTracker. So if you want to be 100% compatible, avoid using them in S3M format. More advanced OPL3 features (i.e. 4-op patches) are currently not supported but they may come eventually (of course not in the S3M format).

Also, you can go a bit easier on that Shift key. The last time I checked, there is no capitalized "G" in my nick.

nikku4211 · March 18, 2019, 22:51:39

Quote from: Saga Musix on March 18, 2019, 22:01:03
The emulated chip is OPL3. ST3 only has OPL2 support, so it does not support those extra waveforms that you mentioned, but you can use them e.g. in SchismTracker. So if you want to be 100% compatible, avoid using them in S3M format. More advanced OPL3 features (i.e. 4-op patches) are currently not supported but they may come eventually (of course not in the S3M format).

Just as I thought. If ScreamTracker 3 doesn't support OPL3, why did you take the extra effort to support it, and why does OpenMPT extend the S3M format to support those extra waveforms? Just curious.

Quote from: Saga Musix on March 18, 2019, 22:01:03
Also, you can go a bit easier on that Shift key. The last time I checked, there is no capitalized "G" in my nick.

(´・ω・`)

Saga Musix · March 19, 2019, 09:29:48

Quote from: nikku4211 on March 18, 2019, 22:51:39
Just as I thought. If ScreamTracker 3 doesn't support OPL3, why did you take the extra effort to support it, and why does OpenMPT extend the S3M format to support those extra waveforms? Just curious.

It's actually more effort to have different feature sets in S3M and MPTM than just being able to use the same code in both formats.

nikku4211 · March 19, 2019, 18:08:18

Quote from: Saga Musix on March 19, 2019, 09:29:48
It's actually more effort to have different feature sets in S3M and MPTM than just being able to use the same code in both formats.

Still, if Scream Tracker 3 doesn't have OPL3 support, why did you give OpenMPT OPL3 support in the first place rather than just stopping at OPL2? I know it's neat to have and it's not like, say, the Innovation SSI-2001 is compatible with OPL2.