Author Topic: Any AdLib-to-Sample conversion software?  (Read 8004 times)

Offline Kitsune_Phoenix

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Any AdLib-to-Sample conversion software?
« on: January 05, 2015, 22:53:21 »
I am looking to convert some AdLib-based tracker modules (such as LDS and AdLib S3M) into Sample-based module formats (such as IT and non-AdLib S3M) so that I can open them in ModPlug. Can anybody help me on this?

For an example, I have attached the Tyrian soundtrack, which is in LDS format, and some AdLib S3Ms.

Offline Saga Musix

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Re: Any AdLib-to-Sample conversion software?
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2015, 06:47:07 »
There is no such thing, and how should it work anyway? A synthesized patch can in theory sound very different at every octave, maybe even at every volume level. Pitchbend effects will certainly alter its sound in a way that cannot be reproduced 100% with samples. You will have to record the patches manually as samples, or maybe try to approximate the sound with something like Juce OPL VSTi, although it will never sound 100% since VSTi handling is simply not identical to how ScreamTracker treats AdLib instruments.
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Offline Kitsune_Phoenix

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Re: Any AdLib-to-Sample conversion software?
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2015, 09:59:15 »
I am not sure if I can figure out how to use something like that O.o
Well, the only tracker I have that works with AdLib instruments is AdLib Tracker 2, and I cannot for the life of me figure out how to operate it. Not to mention, it only supports OPL3 formats like S3M (not sample-based ones, for instance the instruments in Shared Dig won't play in AdLib Tracker, just as the instruments in Wasted.s3m won't play in ModPlug Tracker) and won't open OPL2 formats such as LDS.

I tried to find the loudness tracker, be it a Windows port or in a DOSBox emulator, but no luck (Google never gives me what I want).

Offline Saga Musix

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Re: Any AdLib-to-Sample conversion software?
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2015, 21:36:41 »
You will have to be more precise as to what you want to do. Just listen to S3Ms with AdLib instruments? Then the best idea would be to load them into ScreamTracker and record its output in DOSBox (SchismTracker works too if you don't care too much about 100% playback accuracy and has the advantage that it doesn't require DOSBox and can write a WAV file for you instead of having to do live recording). If you want to make your own music that sounds like AdLib music, you can either create samples from an OPL synth (such as the VSTi I linked, or by recording from DOSBox), or you directly use a tracker that has support for AdLib (ST3 and Schism again).
Since Loudness Tracker was only used for a handful of games and I guess was never released into the public, you will probably have a hard time finding a copy of it, but you could start by asking the people that used it (Alex Brandon is easy to reach e.g. on Twitter) or the developer of the software, Andras Molnár.
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Offline Kitsune_Phoenix

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Re: Any AdLib-to-Sample conversion software?
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2015, 22:10:40 »
Well, I specifically wanted to edit some of them (small things, like adding some stereo panning and/or fixing bad sequence loops), and maybe make some Unreal maps that used Tyrian music (even with the OpenAL available on Old Unreal, the game still only supports sample-based music).

If I just wanted to listen to them, that is what AdPlug and WinAmp are for.

I have a question though; if Schism Tracker can support AdLib instruments, and MPT is based on Schism Tracker's code... then why doesn't MPT support AdLib instruments? I know for a fact that Samples and AdLib are not mutually exclusive, because there are some S3Ms that use both sets at the same time.

- - - -

P.S.: So THAT'S who Andras Molnár is... I was wondering why his music didn't show up in Epic's later games.

Offline Saga Musix

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Re: Any AdLib-to-Sample conversion software?
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2015, 22:22:31 »
Well, I specifically wanted to edit some of them (small things, like adding some stereo panning and/or fixing bad sequence loops), and maybe make some Unreal maps that used Tyrian music (even with the OpenAL available on Old Unreal, the game still only supports sample-based music).
Then you will have to go the long road of recording the AdLib instruments (either through Schism, ST3 or JuceOPL, as said), there is no other way to get this obscure feature to work in Unreal.

I have a question though; if Schism Tracker can support AdLib instruments, and MPT is based on Schism Tracker's code... then why doesn't MPT support AdLib instruments?
Err, you are screwing up history here. Both SchismTracker and OpenMPT are based on ModPlug, but SchismTracker only added this feature a couple of years ago. AdLib instruments were never a feature of ModPlug. We didn't remove anything.

P.S.: So THAT'S who Andras Molnár is... I was wondering why his music didn't show up in Epic's later games.
Read again, he's the developer of the Loudness Sound System, not the composer. Alex Brandon wrote the music for Tyrian, in fact it was his first (but certainly not his last) soundtrack for Epic.
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Offline Kitsune_Phoenix

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Re: Any AdLib-to-Sample conversion software?
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2015, 23:13:59 »
Well, I guess somebody gave me misinformation.

And I saw a few songs on Alexander's Bandcamp that it said were composed by Andras.

Offline Saga Musix

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Re: Any AdLib-to-Sample conversion software?
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2015, 23:21:23 »
Oh, you're right, he composed a couple of extra tunes for Tyrian. But yeah, he was not a musician for any of Epic's developers, he just happened to write one of the sound systems they were using. Most other Epic games at the time were using Joshua Jensen's MASI sound system which used sample-based tracked music (PSM format). And after that, there was Unreal's Galaxy Sound System.
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Offline Kitsune_Phoenix

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Re: Any AdLib-to-Sample conversion software?
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2015, 00:58:30 »
Is it safe to assume that the OpenMPT development team has no plans to add support for AdLib instruments at this time?

Offline Saga Musix

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Re: Any AdLib-to-Sample conversion software?
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2015, 12:24:35 »
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Offline Kitsune_Phoenix

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Re: Any AdLib-to-Sample conversion software?
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2015, 15:58:47 »
Why, though? It doesn't seem like it would be too difficult to implement.

Offline Saga Musix

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Re: Any AdLib-to-Sample conversion software?
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2015, 18:28:17 »
Yes, it always does when you are not the one who has to implement and maintain it and make the design decisions.
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Offline Kitsune_Phoenix

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Re: Any AdLib-to-Sample conversion software?
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2015, 18:45:16 »
But aren't there other people on the development team, and also couldn't you just borrow code from Schism again? I am pretty sure that Schism is open source, like OpenMPT is.

Offline Saga Musix

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Re: Any AdLib-to-Sample conversion software?
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2015, 19:32:56 »
Eh, there's only manx and me actively working on OpenMPT currently, and I know neither of us is interested in implementing it. Schism Tracker itself is published under an incompatible license, and I know that its AdLib S3M support is far from perfect, and I will not settle with some half-baked functionality. OpenMPT and Schism both simply work too differently from ST3 to properly support 100% (or even 95%) accurate AdLib S3M playback, and I am not going to rewrite half of OpenMPT's internal structures to support such a niche feature. I do love that OpenMPT has support for many oldskool formats, but a line has to be drawn somewhere, and synthesized instruments are one particular line I have already drawn years ago. Asking me again and again to implement them will not change this. No means no.
Also keep in mind that OpenMPT can do many things but it's not supposed to be the swiss army knife of the tracking scene, especially when there are much more urgent, already existing features that want to be fixed or implemented.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2015, 19:36:05 by Saga Musix »
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Offline LPChip

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Re: Any AdLib-to-Sample conversion software?
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2015, 22:46:05 »
Just Chipping in here.

I had a discussion (if you can call it that) many years ago with Saga Musix about why not, and he had a very good point. The idea I had was having the format with a synthesizer in it, so you have a small format, and s3m already had this, so why not, right?

Saga pointed out that only a few programs actually support this playback, which are basically trackers, and that the playback is not accurate (yes Saga already mentioned this), but on top of that, and that was the part that just made so much sense that I stopped my quest for this... If you want synthesizer support in your module, just add the VSTi you want and use the IT or MPTM format. Now obviously, I don't want to open old songs, but in OpenMPT you can still open the old s3m files, convert them to IT or MPTM format, and use VSTi's and recreate the sounds they should have in order to "convert" them to a new format.

Alternatively, you could export these songs to wav/mp3 etc and use your favorite music player to play the old files. In best case, scream tracker 3 can export to wave too, which is the native for s3m files, and this can be run through dosbox.
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