Author Topic: would it be possible to have an option..  (Read 14550 times)

Offline psishock

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Re: would it be possible to have an option..
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2012, 02:32:22 »
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how much memory can i access with modplug btw?
As a 32-Bit application, up to 4 GiB i guess.
Make that ~3gb, coz if im not mistaken, win32 cannot address more than 3gb to a single 32bit application. Win32 being able to address around 4gb altogether is another story.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2012, 02:36:06 by psishock »
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Offline sso

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Re: would it be possible to have an option..
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2012, 02:34:42 »
For vsti sampling try Highlife sampler http://www.discodsp.com/highlife/. Windows version is free  ;)

thanks pal. :)

Offline sso

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Re: would it be possible to have an option..
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2012, 02:40:12 »

As a 32-Bit application, up to 4 GiB i guess. More memory might be available by using a plugin bridge like JBridge.

Which version of SideKick are you using? I have only use v3, and it seemed to work when installing the required DLL. You might download Dependency Walker to check if any other libraries are missing on your system, but I think I used the plugin on a fairly clean Win7 install and the only thing that was missing was the VC++7.1 runtime.

thanks for the jbridge tip.

im using v3 of sidekick. seemed to work? yes, forgot to mention, it seemed to work fine as a compressor, not hearing any actual sidechaining, might be sidechaining wrong i suppose, i did watch a few tutorials, but not specifically for the sidekick..

dependency walker eh? thanks. :) 

Offline sso

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Re: would it be possible to have an option..
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2012, 03:00:10 »
lol..what an embarassing story.

i just tested a ripped fl studio,

it installed asio4all,
which stuttered like crazy on modplugtracker and made the creative asio, not work. (which works perfectly with lots of vst´s, while asio4all does not.)
after a long process of installing and uninstalling and deleting this and that. (including asio4all and studio fl.the creative sounddrivers (audigy4))


i get the creative asio to work. (After reinstalling modplugtracker clean.)
but now the song stutters, even at best (version 02) it scratches. (i tested versions 20.01, 20.02, 20.03.)
modplug tracker requires me to use quad, everything else just does not work.  (or fucked up sound.)

and it stutters in songs it did not previous to all this.

its better in 02 (Same version i was running before this happened, i had not upgraded to 03)
but still stutters about a second apart (more like a scratchy fart really, though its actually a stutter, just too fast to click.)

any ideas?

only thing i can think of left is reinstalling windows, and id rather not do that lol. (i had misgivings about installing that fl studio and now i know why, damn me not listening to myself. :) turns out i didnt even like using it lol)

would be really great if you could help this poor fool, lol this sucks. (kicking myself in the head now if i had the required martial arts expertise.)

only asking really, cause its a  rather weird problem.

Edit. songs with alot less vst effects work with the creative asio driver, but only for awhile, soon , the sound gets jerky, when i put on the primary driver and back to the creative asio driver, it works, again till i hit the play button after stopping, then the sound got really scratchy, played only on the left side too after awhile. this is in version 02.


edit : oh by the way, this is made with lots of vst´s (about 60 at the same time.) in modplugtracker.  http://soundcloud.com/svenniola/svenni-ola-o-sole-mi (Svenni ola is another alias i go by.)

can you hear the delays you were talking about?

oh, here too, http://www.netsagas.com/music/ another example, the song "smooth smoocher" probably the best example of the 3, it had alot too.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2012, 05:27:13 by sso »

Offline Saga Musix

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Re: would it be possible to have an option..
« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2012, 12:49:01 »
im using v3 of sidekick. seemed to work? yes, forgot to mention, it seemed to work fine as a compressor, not hearing any actual sidechaining, might be sidechaining wrong i suppose, i did watch a few tutorials, but not specifically for the sidekick..
Uhm, either it sidechain-compresses your audio or it doesn't. SideKick doesn't apply any compression unless it receives audio from the sidechain.
You'll need a "Send" (for the kick drum) and a "Receive" (for the stuff that is supposed to be compressed) instance of the plugin. Every instance is assigned to a greek letter, so if your "Send" instance is alpha, you'll need to set up your "Receive" instance to use the virtual alpha channel and select "ducking" to get the typical pumping sidechain compresseion effect.

Regarding your ASIO issue, I can assure you that none of the mixing or ASIO code was changed between the last few versions, so sure this is only a placebo effect. You should probably increase the sound buffer length if you get stuttering audio.

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i just tested a ripped fl studio
Well, of course it's also possible that this installed some shit on your system which constantly takes away some processing time and thus OpenMPT doesn't get as much CPU time as it would need.

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modplug tracker requires me to use quad, everything else just does not work.
Uh wtf, Quad means 4-channel audio! Quad is of no use unless you have a four speaker setup and just increases processing time. And plugins only have access to OpenMPT's front channels anyway.

Quote
edit : oh by the way, this is made with lots of vst´s (about 60 at the same time.) in modplugtracker.
I can't really hear why you'd need 60 plugins for that. There are no noticeable delays, but the overall mix sounds very muddy to me, I think it's drowning in reverb or something.
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Offline sso

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Re: would it be possible to have an option..
« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2012, 17:43:49 »

Uhm, either it sidechain-compresses your audio or it doesn't. SideKick doesn't apply any compression unless it receives audio from the sidechain.
You'll need a "Send" (for the kick drum) and a "Receive" (for the stuff that is supposed to be compressed) instance of the plugin. Every instance is assigned to a greek letter, so if your "Send" instance is alpha, you'll need to set up your "Receive" instance to use the virtual alpha channel and select "ducking" to get the typical pumping sidechain compresseion effect.

Regarding your ASIO issue, I can assure you that none of the mixing or ASIO code was changed between the last few versions, so sure this is only a placebo effect. You should probably increase the sound buffer length if you get stuttering audio.



Quote
Well, of course it's also possible that this installed some shit on your system which constantly takes away some processing time and thus OpenMPT doesn't get as much CPU time as it would need.

it more sounds like its some shit that specifically attacks the asio. but yeah, i was kinda hoping you´d think of something else than some "shit." which i was afraid it was. ive never seen modplugtracker take up all the cpu of the system im on now, usually its at 15% or something like that, think i saw it once go up to 50% often  im using all the memory though. its at 0% now browsing the internet.

modplug tracker requires me to use quad, everything else just does not work.
Quote
Uh wtf, Quad means 4-channel audio! Quad is of no use unless you have a four speaker setup and just increases processing time. And plugins only have access to OpenMPT's front channels anyway.
[/quote]

yes wtf indeed, hope ill be able to find some info through google, weird shit indeed.
this only happened after that flstudio/asio4all debacle. stereo 32 bit before that.


Quote
I can't really hear why you'd need 60 plugins for that. There are no noticeable delays, but the overall mix sounds very muddy to me, I think it's drowning in reverb or something.

hmm, kinda liking the sound of that mix myself , but its a matter of taste, its a valhallashimmer effect thats going on.
also that song was not properly eq´d, there is too much going on in the 120-300 hz. drowns out the higher frequencies somewhat. its a learning process lol, some of my later songs (not ready.) ive been getting a much clearer sound.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2012, 17:56:48 by sso »

Offline sso

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Re: would it be possible to have an option..
« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2012, 18:18:52 »
lol, weird, i found a temp file cleaner (it was supposed to remove another virus that came with some other fl studio torrent, though i did not have that specific virus.)

and after having used it.
songs work again in 32bit stereo and dont click.

except for my latest song, (the only thing i did different with it, was i accidentally saved it with 03 version and am now running it on 02.)

in that song, the sound does not play, despite the samples being there.

guess im installing 03 again. :)

Offline sso

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Re: would it be possible to have an option..
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2012, 18:49:30 »
yeah, this is weird.


still 02, but its kinda the same problem, though better.


after awhile, everytime i hit play, within a pattern, the sound gets all clicky and draggy (and goes kinda mono, left side.)

it fixes when i press stop a few times (unlike yesterday, when it just went more and more fucked up.)

computer is at 7% processor usage and i have 2gb left of memory.

lol, what a day.

edit: well, it seems to be mostly fine now, havent seen this in awhile, even put the buffer down to 20ms and its fine (used to always have it at 50ms)

on another note, the muddiness and delay you say comes with using many fx at once, im not quite getting that, since modplugtracker is triggering the fx anew everytime i put in another note, i do not use loops btw, so how could it be getting muddier and more delayed, if the notes themselves as played through mpt are getting "renewed"?

not seeing it, unless the fx themselves were retaining some ghost of former "playings"?

so according to that, you´d get at most a slight delay effect in each instance of playing a note?

edit : now suddenly the song only plays in either left or right channel, after having been fine for hours, stop it, left, stop again, right and faded sound. weird, been tracking for a long time, never seen that (or really had any troubles lol)

« Last Edit: September 27, 2012, 23:26:12 by sso »

Offline Saga Musix

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Re: would it be possible to have an option..
« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2012, 01:03:05 »
Sorry but your problem description is rather esoteric, I cannot really help you with that - "goes kinda mono, left side" is for example something that OpenMPT would never do by itself just because it is starving from CPU. Also OpenMPT "suddenly" working with Stereo output again or song just playing on one might rather have something to do with ASIO4All or your other ASIO driver being busy - or your audio cables are broken? :P

Regarding the muddiness, I didn't claim it has anything to do with plugin delays. I think the tune is just slightly drowning in reverb. But that's something about mixing techniques which doesn't belong in this thread (I kind of dislike how it's already getting a "putting all questions into one thread" thing, it just makes everything more confusing than it already is).

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so according to that, you´d get at most a slight delay effect in each instance of playing a note?
For a fitting definition of "slight", yes. I don't know what plugins you use so I don't know if they introduce a delay, and if they do how long this delay is.
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Offline sso

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Re: would it be possible to have an option..
« Reply #24 on: September 28, 2012, 02:14:39 »
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Sorry but your problem description is rather esoteric, I cannot really help you with that - "goes kinda mono, left side" is for example something that OpenMPT would never do by itself just because it is starving from CPU. Also OpenMPT "suddenly" working with Stereo output again or song just playing on one might rather have something to do with ASIO4All or your other ASIO driver being busy - or your audio cables are broken? :P

yeah, it was a very slight hope. :) im thinking it to be easiest just to reinstall windows. there are probably still some files there fucking with the asio.
weird stuff, works for a while, but stopping and replaying or playing some note, starts the computer stuttering and something switching stereosides.
definetly not the cables.


Quote
Regarding the muddiness, I didn't claim it has anything to do with plugin delays. I think the tune is just slightly drowning in reverb. But that's something about mixing techniques which doesn't belong in this thread (I kind of dislike how it's already getting a "putting all questions into one thread" thing, it just makes everything more confusing than it already is).

lol, yes, we are going all over, i might ask your opinion in another thread on my latest stuff and the mixing technique if that would be allright, its always great to get another ear and one that knows what its doing. :)



Quote
so according to that, you´d get at most a slight delay effect in each instance of playing a note?
For a fitting definition of "slight", yes. I don't know what plugins you use so I don't know if they introduce a delay, and if they do how long this delay is.

well, im not hearing anything, i agree on the muddled though, i use alot of instruments and im working on fitting the bottom end of the frequencies together, though personally i like a bit of mud sometimes.

Offline Harbinger

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Re: would it be possible to have an option..
« Reply #25 on: September 28, 2012, 21:13:43 »
and how about a automated process to create multisample instruments out of instruments that have long fx chains? (again to save power, pretty much sucks only being able to use about 70 vsts at once (lot less if big ones.)
I have to say that if you are using 70 plugins at once, you certainly must be doing something wrong. That's way too much stuff going on there. Let me tell you that as a rough rule of thumb, the more plugins you use, the worse your sound will get, not better.

I can think of only 3 reasons why you would be using 70 VSTs in a single track:

1. You don't want any one timbre to stand out, in the same way orchestral instruments blend together to form a single sound;
2. You don't know how to optimize your timbres to use as little FX as possible even for a lot of different timbres/instruments; OR
3. A lot of the VSTi's are used for "one shots" -- quick notes that only play a short sequence then aren't heard any more.

#1 is certainly legitimate, but i would suggest routing them thru a single plugin wrapper like Chainer to better control the sound and FX.
#2 means that you 're unaware of what your listener will hear when it's played. Except for VERY special effect, you don't need more than a 2 delay/reverb FX, and 2 flanging/chorusing FX (unless you're using different settings at different times in the track, in which case you can change those settings with PC notes or Zxx macros, which see), plus whatever instrument-specific VST FX you're applying. The human ear can only pick up a limited number of reverb and chorus levels. But i can't see how you can work up to SEVENTY VSTs even for a big track.
Concerning #3, if you're using a lot of oneshots, i would suggest transferring the notes to samples and use those instead of loading the plugin. It will save on load time and MAY reduce the overall memory footprint of the track, esp. if you call them more than once in the track.
 
You must have a helluva system to handle 70 all at once. I bet if a loaded 70 VSTs in a track, and called C-5 to activate all of them at once, i wonder if they'd lock up my 2 Ghz machine!  :P

Offline sso

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Re: would it be possible to have an option..
« Reply #26 on: September 29, 2012, 00:09:55 »
and how about a automated process to create multisample instruments out of instruments that have long fx chains? (again to save power, pretty much sucks only being able to use about 70 vsts at once (lot less if big ones.)
I have to say that if you are using 70 plugins at once, you certainly must be doing something wrong. That's way too much stuff going on there. Let me tell you that as a rough rule of thumb, the more plugins you use, the worse your sound will get, not better.

I can think of only 3 reasons why you would be using 70 VSTs in a single track:

1. You don't want any one timbre to stand out, in the same way orchestral instruments blend together to form a single sound;
2. You don't know how to optimize your timbres to use as little FX as possible even for a lot of different timbres/instruments; OR
3. A lot of the VSTi's are used for "one shots" -- quick notes that only play a short sequence then aren't heard any more.

#1 is certainly legitimate, but i would suggest routing them thru a single plugin wrapper like Chainer to better control the sound and FX.
#2 means that you 're unaware of what your listener will hear when it's played. Except for VERY special effect, you don't need more than a 2 delay/reverb FX, and 2 flanging/chorusing FX (unless you're using different settings at different times in the track, in which case you can change those settings with PC notes or Zxx macros, which see), plus whatever instrument-specific VST FX you're applying. The human ear can only pick up a limited number of reverb and chorus levels. But i can't see how you can work up to SEVENTY VSTs even for a big track.
Concerning #3, if you're using a lot of oneshots, i would suggest transferring the notes to samples and use those instead of loading the plugin. It will save on load time and MAY reduce the overall memory footprint of the track, esp. if you call them more than once in the track.
 
You must have a helluva system to handle 70 all at once. I bet if a loaded 70 VSTs in a track, and called C-5 to activate all of them at once, i wonder if they'd lock up my 2 Ghz machine!  :P


well, im just playing, having fun making music, i havent studied much or tried to learn too much about the fiddly bits, i used to, back before vsts.
trying to get that sound.

i dunno, i dont add an vst, unless i think it makes the sound better, i make rather complex songs, with lots of layers and stuff, i havent tried chainer yet.
i also dont use that many "big" vst´s, and i havent yet made a song with a vsti (havent really found one yet that inspired me.)

my computer is a intel i7 3.4ghz (have been using middle of the line puters since i was 13, got a lucky break moneyvise and decided to get something that could really handle the vst load i wish to use.)
on transfering the single notes to wav, it would have to be a long wav, or a bunch of wavs, my melodies are rarely if ever, exactly the same over 2 patterns.

and im not really caring That much about what the Listener hears, either people like my stuff or not, i only can write to my pleasure and i have very good ears, quite above normal and i can easily pick apart many different melodies and hear the tiniest things and details.

though im always interested in learning something new.
i Have been overdoing the bass for some time. (personal opinion. :))

and im only just learning as i go, my songs are by no means perfect.

i do things the way i do, because i dont really see another alternative to getting the sounds i want, not a direct one, though i think im gonna try converting each instrument into a wav and then working on that in some other daw.

but, i dont add a vst unless i like at least some of what im hearing, over the previous sound.
you guys make good points though. worthy of consideration.

how i can use 70 effects at once?
well, i usually effect everything, unless i want a dry sound for it, and each effect might have a different effect.

filters, compressors, distortion and so on, and maybe all on one single instrument.
and then i might have 3-4 or more leads (if its a long song, short, maybe 2.)

2-3 basses (of varying frequncies.)
5-10 supporting instruments, a shitload of different single shot drums to make the beat or beats (or frills or whatever.)

then some fx and voices,vocals and whatnot.
usually 70-255 instruments, depending on song or length of it.
 im still learning how to arrange and fit all that without it getting muddied. and i tend to overdo it. :)

2. You don't know how to optimize your timbres to use as little FX as possible even for a lot of different timbres/instruments;

could you give me some tips? :)

i often use old samples, even 8bit 8khz, if i like something about the sound, i try to bring it out with some vst´s, if you know a better way. (and ive used various audioeditors and whatnot throughout the years and i like the vst route better.)