Technique Challenge - Compression Echo

[Harbinger]

I was inspired to use this production idea in a song, but i'm not sure what's the easiest way to implement it in our next track. I'd like your brainstormed ideas.

What i'm looking for is an overcompression delay. Imagine two channels in ModPlug -- Channel 1 has your typical Trance 4/4 set, while Channel 2 plays a drone pad, say a metallic waveform made of alot of pink noise. What i envision happening is that the pad signal is compressed down whenever the kick supercedes the Compressor threshold (listen to psishock's Nullity if you don't know what i mean) -- HOWEVER, the compression happens a quarter-beat later. Got it? The pad is compressed by the loudness of the kick, but you don't hear the compression on the pad till a tap later. The drum line is not compressed. At the bottom is a visual of the signals as i envision this.

I imagine this requires some side-chaining and maybe double side-chaining. Let's assume that all plugins are on the table, and may require the use of something like Chainer for our sidechain.

This has to be done within the confines of ModPlug's audio processing -- no third-party waveform editing. Any ideas on how to make this work?

[LPChip]

I will think out loud here, but as I am thinking, I notice that it won't work. Yet it might trigger ideas to others, so its worth mentioning it still...

I was thinking about compressing both the drums and the bass together using one compressor/limiter. Crank up the volume of the drums so the compressor will lower the volume of the bass when the drum play. This can be achieved using a free VST called Buzzcomp compressor suite. (I've done it myself).

Next, add a delay or reverb to the track and set it so that there's a delay before the "echo" or reverb kicks in. When using reverb, this can be done using early reflection delay and a reverb with a very low reverb time setting, or with a delay with little feedback.

On both options, set the dry/wet ratio to 100% wet, 0% dry. (sometimes they're 2 volume sliders).

I realize that this will also delay the drum. Probably if you can somehow side-chain with multiple inputs, the drum will not get through, and that would solve this. I read somewhere on the forum that someone found a compressor that can side-chain in OpenMPT.

[Christofori]

Is using the .MPTM format and PC or PCS controls to specify a compression trigger in it's own channel, which happens to correspond to your (bass drum+1 tap) timing, out of the question?  That's how I'd do it.. seems a lot simpler even though it involves slight data re-entry...  (Sometimes doing so saves more time than that which finding 'the way to do it' can take; trust me, I know..!)

[Harbinger]

I use MPTM exclusively (except for UMX tracks) and i'm an expert on PC notes so that was for me a given.

Yes, guys, you're both on the right track: i COULD use a doubled drum line, where one line is sent as normal, while the other is pushed back 1/4 beat and, instead of side-chaining, the 2nd drum line is Dry'ed out while its compressor-effected pad is WET'ed in.

But somehow that seems like cheating, altho it would definitely work (and that's the beauty of tracking -- there are simple ways to solve problems!).

I wanted, however, to do an effect that i had not heard before and take side-chaining to its extreme...

[Christofori]

*scratches head*

Well, I'm definately no expert (nor adept even..) concerning side-chaining, but I believe the shortfall in your case would be lack of the right VST -- and I don't know of any vst's that can currently do this.  It really sounds like you need one capable of modifying one input 'stream' if you will (a channel in this case) and producing multiple 'output streams' -- each having it's own custom effects applied.  One of these could then be a 1/4-note-delay with compression (or you could do the delay and then route it to another VST, perhaps your favorite compressor FE).

Know any VST programmers?

[Harbinger]

After doing some testing with side-chaining for an upcoming tutorial, i found the answer to this problem, and it's actually quite simple: add a Dry delay at the end of a Wet sidechained compression. That is:

Code Select Expand


Signal 1 Signal 2 
     |   |
     V   V
    Compressor
      Module
        |
        V
      Delay
Tweak the compressor so Signal 2 is compressed when signal 1 sounds, and set the delay to 1/4 beat. Set all Dry's to 0% and Wet's to 100%, except the first signal, whose Dry is 100% (if you want to hear the kick over the compressed pad, for example).
If you want to use this in Chainer, set up signal 1 from Chainer channel 1 and Send To channel 3. Do the same for signal 2 in Channel 2, making sure the last slot sends to channel 3. In channel 3, set up your compressor in Slot 1 (at this point it's a typical sidechain), and your delay in Slot 2 under it. All slots should have 0% Dry and 100% Wet (except Slot 1 of Channel 1 which should also be set to 100% Dry and 100% Wet).