Author Topic: Few thoughts about overlapping notes  (Read 5085 times)

Offline vicktech

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Few thoughts about overlapping notes
« on: October 15, 2010, 21:32:17 »
See the picture:


It may look like NNA but differs from it by ability to apply arbitrary commands to each note from start to end.
Note positions point onto separate track (or tracks if notes are many) where actual note is played with all desired effects. There can be launching of several notes at once from same position.
Track, when activated, allocates free channel for playing.

So it is something like midi sequencing - breaking a myth about opinion that midi sequencers are something professional whereas trackers are not.

Further mental researchs will be put toward shifting from hard quantization and ticks to less bounded to hard frames, mathematically precise positions of notes and effects. Events - generally speaking.

This will help to avoid redundant pattern's length, and will improve readability of patterns.

Offline LPChip

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Few thoughts about overlapping notes
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2010, 09:48:03 »
It might help if you actually add some descriptive text about what you're displaying here.

Cus so far it seems like something that exists already using NNA's.
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Offline vicktech

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Few thoughts about overlapping notes
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2010, 11:26:27 »
updated.

Offline Saga Musix

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Few thoughts about overlapping notes
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2010, 11:31:53 »
sounds like a combination of 3d trackers and midi, something I personally don't find very intriguing to look into (yet).
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Offline LPChip

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Few thoughts about overlapping notes
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2010, 14:44:41 »
What happened to just using a different channel for this?

A channel is not bound for an instrument, and if you need 6 channels for an instrument, then why not just do that?
"Heh, maybe I should've joined the compo only because it would've meant I wouldn't have had to worry about a damn EQ or compressor for a change. " - Atlantis
"yes.. I think in this case it was wishful thinking: MPT is makng my life hard so it must be wrong" - Rewbs

Offline Saga Musix

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Few thoughts about overlapping notes
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2010, 15:26:05 »
Quote from: "LPChip"
A channel is not bound for an instrument, and if you need 6 channels for an instrument, then why not just do that?
Your suggestion is just a workaround, since you can't even group channels in OpenMPT, meaning that the module structure / logic is not very tidy. And workaround are often a bad thing, because that implies lacking functionality.
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Offline LPChip

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Few thoughts about overlapping notes
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2010, 20:22:56 »
I know, but since this is in General Chatter, and not in feature requests, I thought this is a discussion. :)
"Heh, maybe I should've joined the compo only because it would've meant I wouldn't have had to worry about a damn EQ or compressor for a change. " - Atlantis
"yes.. I think in this case it was wishful thinking: MPT is makng my life hard so it must be wrong" - Rewbs

Offline Rxn

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Few thoughts about overlapping notes
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2010, 18:43:53 »
How are you supposed to have an access to control multiple notes playing in
the same channel?

Offline psishock

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Few thoughts about overlapping notes
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2010, 19:22:42 »
This sound something like we have in Renoise implemented, and its quite handy for some cases.

It allows you to open additional note-fields in the same channel, to have the sequencer like separate note control, and avoids the implementation of the "channel grouping" functionality. I'm using it for chords and in similar multi-note situations every time.


To be honest, its really just a time saver/comfort factor, because this was you can setup a whole bunch of routing to 1 channel and just play all your notes and even different instruments from that setup.

As LP said, you can always end up using separate channels for every note on "standard" tracker formats, this will have the same effect like a sequencer's multi-note pianoroll. It will surely need some additional routing/setup for every channel, and its not the most (visually) comfortable way to compose, but at least it works, and will definitely give you separate control.
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Offline Saga Musix

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Few thoughts about overlapping notes
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2010, 20:55:32 »
Quote from: "psishock"
This sound something like we have in Renoise implemented, and its quite handy for some cases.
Nothing new on planet Renoise. That's what I call "grouped channels".
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Offline psishock

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Few thoughts about overlapping notes
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2010, 21:32:14 »
It is, and its not. :D

Its not channel grouping, as the term describes it, because it does not have that functionality. You sill have the channel's own automation, fx, and routing chain, it doesnt duplicates it for every extra note column. If it would do, you would effectively have multiple fully functional channels in the same track, which would be the "channel grouping". :D

This only gives you ability to open extra note columns on the users demand, to have the pianoroll-like multinote control and overview, for every separate parallel note.

You aren't having all the extra "channel fx" and similar features for each separate notes in this case also, as you can see.

Think of it as a small channel extension, for users who only need to have multiple note control (that mimics real-life instruments?), and dont need all the extra functionality, that a complete, separate channel would give them.
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Offline vicktech

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Re: Few thoughts about overlapping notes
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2010, 22:46:29 »


The only remaining problem with piano roll - it cant display 2 same notes. (Used to do oddy sound effects by slightly shifting frequency of 1 note.)

Actually overlapping notes are bad idea, because it makes sound dirty.
True ace uses clean sound, not fat reverberation or notes that overlap.
But for the sake of freedom..... it still may be required.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2010, 22:49:42 by vicktech »

Offline psishock

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Re: Few thoughts about overlapping notes
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2010, 23:43:55 »
Quote
The only remaining problem with piano roll - it cant display 2 same notes.
well i kinda dislike the pure piano roll display too, but renoise is "welding together" the two solutions, so we have tracker (were you can easily display 2 same notes) and piano roll features combined. But anyway, the main idea of the piano roll is to simulate a real, keyboard based instruments. You cant really press the same key, without letting it go first, now can u? :)

Quote
Actually overlapping notes are bad idea, because it makes sound dirty.
True ace uses clean sound, not fat reverberation or notes that overlap.
I think "true aces" dont stick to (meaningless) rules, but compose from their heart. Music should be intuition based, so it can naturally evolve over time, not forced to any rules carved in stone.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2010, 23:48:42 by psishock »
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Offline vicktech

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Re: Few thoughts about overlapping notes
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2010, 01:26:45 »
Quote
The only remaining problem with piano roll - it cant display 2 same notes.
well i kinda dislike the pure piano roll display too, but renoise is "welding together" the two solutions, so we have tracker (were you can easily display 2 same notes) and piano roll features combined. But anyway, the main idea of the piano roll is to simulate a real, keyboard based instruments. You cant really press the same key, without letting it go first, now can u? :)
Why not? Suppose I practice wu tang :)
Or I have 2 piano keyboards :)

Quote
Quote
Actually overlapping notes are bad idea, because it makes sound dirty.
True ace uses clean sound, not fat reverberation or notes that overlap.
I think "true aces" dont stick to (meaningless) rules, but compose from their heart. Music should be intuition based, so it can naturally evolve over time, not forced to any rules carved in stone.

I surely agree, otherwise I would not begin topic.
Just had to notice though:
Manipulating frequency, notes, volume and rhythm can give you more clean, comprehensive and impressive sound than abuse of effects. I believe it relates to human's sensor system. As one cant eat too many kinds of food simultaneously, the same one cant listen too many diverse and unharmonized frequencies.
Example: most interesting music had been written by Amiga four channel trackers.

Still freedom is required at least for having "room to play".