Fuel on the fire!

[Waxhead]

I have not been very active here for a while but I stumbled upon a cool tracker called Psycle ( http://psycle.pastnotecut.org/portal.php )

I found it quite similar to Buzz but I have to say I liked this better - especially since many of my keyboardshortcuts seemed to work fine out of the box

Now I will probably stick with ModPlug for life but I still think this was a quite cool thing and it is absolutely worth checking out!  :gjob:

[Rakib]

It's a well known buzz-like music application, and it is still inn development. Actually developet first by Arguru (rip).

[psishock]

Fuel on the fire!

Informing people about cool new stuffs (no matter that i am aware of psycle for some time now) should never be considered as a flame or attack against other programs.

Some stuff should be made clear: using different programs (or even far superior programs for that matter) wont magically enable one, to make better music. Everyone should brain about his demands while picking a music maker program. Almost every program has dozens of standardized and couple of unique features. For instance, ProTools or Cubase are far superior programs (feature wise) compared to Renoise, but Renoise has unique features and work system that suits me much better than those in the example. So it may sounds funny at first, but i would actually make lot worse music, if would be forced to use "superior" program.

I will probably stick with ModPlug for life

(You can see from my previous comments that i don't judge any program, only comparing my personal profile and their features.)

I strongly think, brand loyalty (fanboyism) is never healthy or in fact, a sane approach. Why would you want to become a fanboy in the first place? It would only benefit the companies that will continue to sell you the products, but will drag you down as a producer and the listeners too.

Ompt is open source, the fact that you use it or not, wont have any impact to the developers. They have their personal vision, and will stick to it, with or without your support as a user (there is no financial business model involved, to make them more "inspired" with every new costumer). But using a program that potentially suit your personal demands better, will have a great impact to you and to the listeners, because you will actually make greater products, that people and you will enjoy better.

You suddenly found a program (or hardware), that fit your demands much better, than the one you have used for long time? I would say go for it. I have switched many hardware and software brands over my life, always checked what is the best for me and downloaded/bought/used it. Don't be afraid to change, learn how to use it, it will truly benefit you and the people you reach, in the end.

Dont stick to OMPT, just because you are a fanboy. Stick to it because of the sane reasons, if they exists.

[Saga Musix]

Informing people about cool new stuffs (no matter that i am aware of psycle for some time now) should never be considered as a flame or attack against other programs.

Aww, why not?

I strongly think, brand loyalty (fanboyism) is never healthy or in fact, a sane approach.

On the other hand, it makes sense in some cases. I'd say that trackers are such a case. I know people who have been using the same tracker for more than 15 years now. If you spent half of your lifetime with a program, you simply can't swich to another "brand" anymore. At least not as easily as you suggest.

[psishock]

On the other hand, it makes sense in some cases. I'd say that trackers are such a case. I know people who have been using the same tracker for more than 15 years now. If you spent half of your lifetime with a program, you simply can't swich to another "brand" anymore.  At least not as easily as you suggest.

Lol why?

You are forgetting that this person doesn't actually improved the program handling skills for more than 15 years, but his composing and other musical, sound combining experience. The full learning process for one program shouldn't take more than a few month, in the worst cases. Totally inexperienced newb people can learn to use a program over that time, dont say to me that fully professional people in the field cant use most of their experience, to reduce that learning process, to much lesser time period, by applying their already developed knowledge.

I would say that i can't switch to another "brand" anymore is simply a lazy man's cry. People are trying use this excuse, to avoid that little learning process time, that will enable themselves to update their new program handling knowledge. If a new program has dozens of super needed cool features, its a weak excuse to say: oh well, i've already spent a couple of years with the old handicapped one, cant really switch now, i might as well stay with it 'till the rest of my life. Bummer.

It may be a bad timing choice to do so, if you would live only for a very short time after (yer too old geezer basically , but if you could do your job 50+ more years more efficiently and comfortable, for a few months of "struggling period" between the migrating, i would say pretty much take the chance without crying. Ok, composing will not be as comfortable and "natural", as you felt over those years with the previous program, but after the migrating time, you will grow to work with all these new demanded features much much easier. It can happen that you will laugh at the old one and say: man why had i spend so much time with that handicapped one, looked for workarounds, with my hands limited, and never realized until now, how easily i could have worked with this new one.

Dont be lazy people, learn until you die.

Aww, why not?

lmao, that troll sounds really successful, i love the pic. :lol:

[Saga Musix]

You are forgetting that this person doesn't actually improved the program handling skills for more than 15 years, but his composing and other musical, sound combining experience.

Oh, you can't know. He's using one of the most powerful and feature-rich trackers I know (X-Tracker) and has written several tools just for this program.

The full learning process for one program shouldn't take more than a few month, in the worst cases.

I'm sure I needed several years to make use of the full potential of MPT, like everyone else, and I'm sure that I have still not found every feature. And if I suddenly had to switch to Buzz, I would probably write crap music again and struggly and would eventualyl give up. Not because of "the MPT brand is cool" or anything, but just because of processed I'm used to and can't forget about anymore.
And even if X-Tracker *has* restrictions, my friend can't simply switch, because it is so much different from most other trackers and there is no need to switch (even though he tried several times)

[Waxhead]

I just want to add that switching to a music program you never used before really can be of benefit. You think differently and thus you create music in a way never done before and that can be a very creative process. So with some luck you are more likely to create something new since you have to work in a new way!
Also "fanboyism" can be a great way of pushing things forward!. Not always but sometimes!
Also with "fuel on the fire" I was actually referring to adding feature request and not flamewarish things People here at modplug seldom seem to get in a flamewar mostly because we are such a nice group of anima...people

[psishock]

Oh, you can't know. He's using one of the most powerful and feature-rich trackers I know (X-Tracker) and has written several tools just for this program.

You're right, i cant know, only can assume. But again, think about it, what a great advertisement: X-Tracker. Its so powerful, even (insert any 2 digit) years is not enough to master it. :?

I know from experience that OMPT is much harder to learn than Renoise, because i tried to teach both of them to people, and i had experienced it myself too. With OMPT you have much more preparing steps to actually start working on some musics, GUI is much more unorganized, composing involves heavier workarounds to archive the same, than with Renoise.

Superiority in this issue means lesser learning time as possible. Professional DAWs are aware of this too. If a person can chose to learn good program fully, for a little time period, or can learn another, only over much much more, will take the first in 99%. If X-Tracker has a several year learning period, i would say it is a bad tracker, it would need strong redesigning.

my friend can't simply switch, because it is so much different from most other trackers

So...? How much time has an average cool DAW to learn? From scratch for that matter? He can drop his X-Tracker skills totally, learn new DAW ones, and can keep only the composing, structural and musical ones. FL studio or Ableton for instance can be mastered quite fast too, and are a very feature rich programs, if one needs to drop the tracker system totally because the tons of demanded features. As i've said before, newb people can learn these programs arguably fast. An experienced composer should be able to shorten that learning period, to much shorter time.

there is no need to switch (even though he tried several times)

Can i smell logical pitfall here? Why the hell did he tried to switch in the first place, if he has absolutely no need for anything else? I can't really imagine myself saying:
ahhh Renoise is just perfect! It has everything that i need, can work totally comfortable and naturally with it...  now lets start learning some other softs that has tons of unwanted features and work systems, that are most likely way more different than i found perfect in my previous program. O_O
err wtf right?

[Saga Musix]

Can i smell logical pitfall here?

Well, i should probably rather have written "it would be nice to use something more modern with the same (and more) feates as X-Tracker, but there is no such thing, so he just sticks with X-Tracker".

[psishock]

Yea, you should have written that . It makes sense actually.

For the curiosity, are you aware of those special features that are essential for him, and only available in X-Tracker?

People here at modplug seldom seem to get in a flamewar mostly because we are such a nice group of anima...people

Speak for yourself, I am a unicorn hunter! :pimp:

[Saga Musix]

I have never asked so... But I had a quick look at the demo version (mostly because I'm trying to improve the DMF loader in OpenMPT), and it quickly became very clearly that the workflow in this program is completely different. You even seem to be able to use some kind of macros. It's a very interesting tracker.

[psishock]

well, i had done a lil research, and if we're talking bout this, i have serious doubts. (wasnt easy at all even to find it ):
http://www.xtracker32.org/history.shtml
http://www.xtracker32.org/features.shtml
http://www.xtracker32.org/screenshots.shtml
doesnt even have a proper demo, but some developer alpha build, that you can "request" from the makers.

By what i had seen, even our OMPT is far far more feature rich. xtracker32 doesnt seems to have anything special at all, except maybe the fact that you dont have to learn hex codes for tracker effects, and have custom skinning ability. Those will surely appeal to newcomer musicians. But the program in general seems pretty useless, compared to any modern product.

[Saga Musix]

Errm. Get your facts straight. xtracker32 was an attempt at making a modern X-Tracker clone for Win32, because it is pretty difficult (next to impossible) to get X-Tracker working on a modern PC. However, scamp and the vacuum crew obviously didn't succeed at finishing their port (and I'm sure organizing the biggest demoparty out there didn't really help either). Believe me, if I mean that X-Tracker is awesome and different, then I mean it. There's no way you can compare MPT to X-Tracker.

[psishock]

oh...kai.

[Louigi Verona]

What is an X-Tracker? I found no info on the web.