Buying a MIDI keyboard

[Oliwerko]

Hi there lads,

I've come to the point where I want to get myself a MIDI keyboard, for composing with QWERTZ is tiresome and inconvenient. I'm still a beginner in this field and thus I would appreciate some advice.

I always thought that for a MIDI keyboard, you need a MIDI cable and a MIDI input on your soundcard. Recently, I discovered that majority of the keyboards work through USB! My question is - is there any notable latency when USB is used?

I have a Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer soundcard, which (if I'm not mistaken) has also ASIO support. That means latencies should be minimal, is it true?
Is a USB cable really all I need?

Another thing is what exact brand/type to get. I want a 61-key keyboard, for 49 is nice, but still rather small. 88 is expensive and spacey, so I guess 61 is a golden middle way.

I've been thinking of M-Audio Oxygen 61 - http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Oxygen61.html
It's priced at about 160 EUR here, which is about the max I am willing to pay.

Another I was checking out was Behringer UMX61 - http://www.behringer.com.au/EN/Products/UMX61.aspx

and also E-MU Xboard 61 - http://www.emu.com/products/product.asp?category=532&subcategory=533&product=15164

Is there anything I should pay special attention to? Does anyone have any experience with the above keyboards?
I am primarily interested in the Oxygen, because it has sliders beside knobs, which seems to me very useful, but again, I may be mistaken.


Thanks for any pointers, I want to be sure I know what I'm buying  :wink:

[Saga Musix]

Well, as stated on the Nectarine oneliner...

- USB signals obviously don't go through the soundcard.
- USB is an asynchronous bus, meaning that it will generate unpredictable latencies - I dunno how much that affects recording "quality" since I still use old-fashioned MIDI cables - but I've heard bad things from other people.
- The X-fi supports ASIO, but Creative drivers are probably the worst drivers ever made. Low latencies shouldn't be a problem, though.

Is there anything I should pay special attention to?

The more extra buttons, the better!

[Oliwerko]

The thing is I am not in the high-end requirements stage yet.

I AM going to update my soundcard someday for sure, the thing now is if buying a MIDI keyboard is OK with this one. I'm fine composing on this hardware as of now. Saying that, I don't do live stuff, obviously.

I'm not exactly well on my budget right now, so buying both a soundcard AND a keyboard is not an option for me now.

The thing is if to buy a USB keyboard would be okay with this hardware of not, simply because using qwertz is...you know what.

[LPChip]

My piano has both USB and MIDI, and I prefer the USB connection as its easier.

The only downside to USB is the fact that it uses drivers that you need to install and use.

I mention "and use" because usb drivers work as follows: if you unplug the cable, windows "unregisters" the device from the system (as in, making it invisible) plugging it back in, reloads it again.

This behavior makes it so that you have to turn on your keyboard, plug in the USB cable and then fire up the application you want to use with your midi software.

Put that limitation aside, and USB gives you a device that you can bring with you to every computer, even if that pc/laptop doesn't have midi capabilities.

Latency is one of the things I haven't had any problems with what so ever. The response over USB is as good as with MIDI because the slowest factor is the soundcard. But if you have ASIO (which your card has) then even on 2 ms you get a very good response.

[uncloned]

I use

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Keystation88es.html



it is inexpensive and I am very happy with it. Less than 88 keys did not satisfy in the long run. And you can use this to drive another midi device as well.

[Saga Musix]

The response over USB is as good as with MIDI because the slowest factor is the soundcard.

Evidence, please. What makes you so certain that a PCI(e) soundcard is slower than a USB 2.0 bus, which is not exactly the fastest bus in the world?

[LPChip]

The response over USB is as good as with MIDI because the slowest factor is the soundcard.

Evidence, please. What makes you so certain that a PCI(e) soundcard is slower than a USB 2.0 bus, which is not exactly the fastest bus in the world?

I'm talking about the latency of the sound. USB and MIDI both are faster than the sound that can be produced by ASIO.

Want evidence, come to my house, and I'll show it to you! XD

[uncloned]

would it not be more accurate to say that the soft synth's ability to create the sound and the driver to play it is the real latency?

midi has virtually nothing to do with it - and usb also.

the amount of midi data sent to trigger the sound is practically nothing compared to the data generated by the sound itself. All of the delay is in the softsynth and driver - and thus your CPU - not the midi interface or soundcard.

[Oliwerko]

Thank you all for input.

From what I read here I shouldn't have big latency issues, using USB connection and a quad-core.

The keystation88ES is nice because of the capability of connecting it via both USB and MIDI. I am not going into 88 keys though. You know...getting 88 keys and not even knowing how to play...
Also, don't you feel a lack of sliders/knobs on it, uncloned?

EDIT: Oh, what's the difference between 'weighted' and 'non-weighted' keys?

[uncloned]

no,

but if I want that I have a Korg MS2000

however, you could also get a nanokorg controller

http://www4.shopping.com/-nano+korg+price

very affordable.

[AlisterFlint]

i use both MIDI and USB connection, and i've never seen any difference, latency wise. but i'm far from being a pro, so..
the downside with MIDI though, is that MIDI-ready soundcards are a little more expensive than USB cards.
the downside with USB is that, as soon as you hook your cable into another USB plug, even on the same computer as usual,
you will have to install the drivers from scratch.

again, i'm no pro but MIDI or USB, both technologies are binary-based, sending 0 and 1, so why would there be a latency difference.
however, with cables +1.50m long, you'll gain latency with MIDI. i've never checked but i'm sure it'll be the same with USB.

and back to your initial question, both M-Audio and EMU have been proven to be worth the money.
good thing with the Oxygen, is the mini surface control that comes with. 8 sliders & knobs should be enough as a starter kit.

fact is, sometime, even 7ms latency is a pain in the neck to deal with when you play live, but if you want ~0ms latency,
you'd have to spend quite some money on pro/semi-pro card like CW Pulsar and such. and those are really pricy..

hope that helps..

[uncloned]

Thank you all for input.



EDIT: Oh, what's the difference between 'weighted' and 'non-weighted' keys?

weighted keys more closely resemble the feel of a real piano.

Personally I dislike it and even my pianist friend says he prefers regular synth key feel to play fast leads. For me it is a matter of not tiring out my hands. Weighted keys give much more resistance to your fingers and are hard to play loud.

[LPChip]

EDIT: Oh, what's the difference between 'weighted' and 'non-weighted' keys?

The better keyboards have touch sensitivity. This means, if you strike the key with hard force the tone is loud. If you strike it gently the tone will be soft.

Weight (hammer logic) and non-weight keys basically give you a different feel on the keys. Non weighted keys are very easy to strike, where for the weighted keys (aka hammer logic) it requires more force.

Keyboards with weighted keys are those that try to emulate a real piano and give you the feeling that there are actually mechanical hammers inside hitting strings. The sound won't alter, only the feeling on your hands.

If you're not aiming at playing the keyboard as a real piano, you should not go for weighted keys. Also, it might be a better idea to get a very cheap non-weighted keyboard and at a later stage visit a music store to see what weighted keys are.

If you purely want to have the idea of a keyboard and learning it, maybe the Creative ProdiKeys is something for you. Basically its a normal computer keyboard with an added non-weighted keyboard in it that has midi drivers. There are only 2 octaves but for the cheap price it is a very good starting keyboard which you can put next to your computer without having to look for a place to put your keyboard somewhere in your room.

http://www.prodikeys.com/products/Prodikeys_PC-MIDI/

[uncloned]

LP,

Almost every keyboard not made by fisher-price is touch sensitive nowadays - even the Korg nano series.

Quality of touch sensitivity might be an issue - but better vsti's can adjust their velocity range to meet your playing style / keyboard.

[Oliwerko]

Thanks for claryfying.

LP - I've seen that keyboard before, but I don't want anything either too cheap or too 'entry-level'. I'm not one of those kids that have plenty of money to play with, but I rather like to invest and to learn on fair equipment.

I guess I'll go with the Oxygen. One downside is no MIDI output, which deprives me of the ability to control anything else than software in the future; but it has a handful of sliders and knobs that should do for starters. It seems to me that that's an appropriate keyboard of choice...