Audio humanizer VSTi (MIDI?)

Harbinger · January 10, 2009, 03:55:16

I posed a question over at www.kvraudio.com about finding a VST effect that randomly delays note signals in order to humanize for example piano playing. I got some answers concerning MIDI VSTi's but i don't think MIDI is what i need, but that only because i wasn't sure if VSTi's were activated via MIDI (though i knew you could use MIDI with certain VST parameters).

Then i received this response from a poster:

Quote from: "teempee"
MPT uses midi to control the vsti's. I haven't used it in few years so I don't remember exactly how was vsti's loaded into it. One way I remember doing it was creating a new instrument and setting it to send midi to the midi ch1, and then assinging the VSTi as a channel effect. It might have changed in Open MPT though. Try changing the order in the effect chain and every other possibility until you either get it working or get too frustrated.

So the question is, if i'm using a piano VSTi (a simple one like mda Piano), do i pass the notes to the humanizer first or the VSTi first? Will it even work with MPT's VSTi handling? That is, is MPT generating MIDI messages automatically trying to control the VSTi's?

LPChip · January 10, 2009, 10:20:55

I dunno how the humaniser works exaclty but I expect it to alter the midi-dataflow. If thats the case, you'll be going to run in the problem that OpenMPT ignores the midiflow after the first VSTi regardless of if that VSTi has an output.

You're going to need a chainer that allows this, like Xlutop. I expect the humaniser to come first, then the piano VSTi.

Do note that you can use the SDx effect to delay single notes so you can humanise the track yourself. Yes that also works with VSTi's.

If the Humaniser would come afterwards it would process the audio signal itself and that would make it sound very weird because all sounds will pause at the same time making it appear like you added a gater.

Harbinger · January 10, 2009, 16:21:57

Understood.

You should be able to tell i'm trying to avoid PAYING for a VST, even one as excellent as you make Xlutop out to be. I'm sure it does a lot of things and makes music tracking so much easier, but anything over 1 cent is not in my budget.

Yes, i have been using SDx for my piano suites, but i spend more time entering SDx's than i do notes (they all should be slightly different), plus different key velocities. I'm trying to cut down the amount of time this costs me, mostly because i'm putting together about 113 of them. I often take shortcuts like cutting and pasting strips of events i've already entered, but it's still a shortcut, and i notice the repetition. It would be great if MPT had an event Randomizer (like sequencers i've used) but the devs (dev?) have enough on their plate trying to clean up basic features, plus i'm sure it's already been suggested.

I'll keep your wisdom in mind, as i will try out a couple of them tonight. But my original question still needs an answer: does MPT activate VSTi's via MIDI (like any external MIDI instrument) or is there another event sender that MPT uses?

Saga Musix · January 10, 2009, 16:25:52

To reduce the amount of time and having a "real" humanizer, you could get yourself a cheap midi keyboard. Modplug records delay (SDx) and volume of incoming MIDI notes.

älskling · January 10, 2009, 22:37:27

Quote from: "Harbinger"does MPT activate VSTi's via MIDI (like any external MIDI instrument) or is there another event sender that MPT uses?

If I've understood things correctly, MPT sends midi data (such as notes) to instrument plugins (VSTi's), but it doesn't allow for a plugin to send any midi data to the next plugin in the chain. This means the VSTi you're using will have to have it's own humanizer (I don't know of any that does).

bvanoudtshoorn · January 11, 2009, 04:11:10

Harbinger, have hope! In the MPT source, there's a dialog for randomising values, including volume, panning, etc, so I think that that's coming soon.

From then, it shouldn't be too difficult to randomise some effects as well, so having random SDx effects shouldn't be too far in the future.

Saga Musix · January 11, 2009, 13:01:56

I wouldn't be so sure about that. There's also been an "artist" template, a "goto" window and some more interesting stuff for ages, but it hasn't been used.

Harbinger · January 11, 2009, 16:37:15

Quote from: "bvanoudtshoorn"Harbinger, have hope! In the MPT source, there's a dialog for randomising values, including volume, panning, etc, so I think that that's coming soon. From then, it shouldn't be too difficult to randomise some effects as well, so having random SDx effects shouldn't be too far in the future.

Oh i hate hope! It's another word for disappointment! :lol:

Perhaps some dev, maybe a new dev, could see if it's possible [looking at Jojo] to implement a randomize feature. Hmmm, now THERE's a daydream.....(sigh) :winksmile:

BTW i tried 3 promising VST's (Soma NoteFX, Glitch, and GTRandomizer), and i tried a multitude of various chain setups and pathings, and the only one i could get even close was Glitch, but that randomly delays the whole audio signal, which isn't what i wanted to do. So far no luck....

Relabsoluness · January 11, 2009, 20:27:47

Quote from: "Jojo"a "goto" window and some more interesting stuff for ages, but it hasn't been used.

But unlike the pattern randomizer, which has been there for years untouched and is not functional, to 'goto' window works (actually it even was in RC2 release notes).

Saga Musix · January 11, 2009, 20:28:30

It does? But is it also implemented into the GUI? I haven't seen it so far...

Relabsoluness · January 11, 2009, 20:37:01

Quote from: "Jojo"It does? But is it also implemented into the GUI? I haven't seen it so far...

I think it's only available through keyboard (Pattern Editor - general - "Go to row/channel...")

Harbinger · January 17, 2009, 00:23:55

I happened to find it under Pattern Randomizer (which i never opened because i never needed the order of my patterns mixed up!), the randomizing GUI is indeed prepared but the functions never implemented (or even coded!). This could definitely solve all of my drum and piano problems.

Let me pose a straightforward question to the devs: how high a priority is this on our list of things to work on?

Saga Musix · January 17, 2009, 13:05:44

Depends on the amount of money you're willing to spend...

Harbinger · January 17, 2009, 16:17:18

I was seriously considering that when i posed the question! :lol:

Saga Musix · January 21, 2009, 19:38:28

QuoteI think it's only available through keyboard (Pattern Editor - general - "Go to row/channel...")

I've made it being accessible through the "Edit" menu now.