Author Topic: [Classical] - Was f?r ein Leben! (ogg) First movement of a s  (Read 9612 times)

Offline rncekel

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Finally, I have finished the composition of the first movement of this string quartet. Although I am not completely satisfied by the instruments (I have made them myself at home, from samples from real instruments), I think it is time now to hear some comments.

ftp://ftp.scenesp.org/pub/modulez/rncekel/cuart0.zip

Offline Snu

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[Classical] - Was f?r ein Leben! (ogg) First movement of a s
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2006, 08:40:24 »
well first of all, DONT ZIP AN OGG! sheesh...

sounds a lot more like a second movement to me, usually the first are pretty fast and lively, this is very introspective sounding.
as for the instruments themselvels, i would suggest shortening the fadeout of the nna's, as it sounds like hitting multiple strings when they should only be on one.
also, the intro part is BEGGING for some sample offsets... and that pop in the sample loop kills me -_-
its pretty nice other than that, considering the limits of single layer sample sets (and well, im a perfectionist and play violin, so that really stands out, heh). something's a little off on that subito forte at the end too...

compositionally-wise, its certainly interesting, i like the variety, tho chromatically its a little out there for my taste, it does grow on ya tho.

Offline rncekel

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[Classical] - Was f?r ein Leben! (ogg) First movement of a s
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2006, 11:36:54 »
Well, I have to zip it, because this server don't accept ogg, but zip (or rar).
I am surprise about the pop you have heard; I have to find it, because there is NO LOOP in the instruments; just samples of about 4 second long, without any loop at all. So, this must be a click in one sample, not a bad loop.

It is the first movement, because the second will be an Adagio (still slower), and the third it's planned to be an Agitato.

Thanks for the comments. I will try to fix the noise and find out good offsets (I suppose you mean in the cello solo at the beginning, don't you?)

Offline Snu

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[Classical] - Was f?r ein Leben! (ogg) First movement of a s
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2006, 12:44:19 »
Quote from: "rncekel"
Well, I have to zip it, because this server don't accept ogg, but zip (or rar).

aaah, that sucks.
sorry, its just sortof a pet peeve when people do pointless compressions, like zipping a rar file... sigh.

Quote from: "rncekel"
I am surprise about the pop you have heard; I have to find it, because there is NO LOOP in the instruments; just samples of about 4 second long, without any loop at all. So, this must be a click in one sample, not a bad loop.

oh, well, with that in mind, it appears to be at the beginning of one sample, the one used in the 4th note (and later).
the offsets i mentioned mostly to make the intro flow a little better, but then thats just a suggestion, maybe you like it a bit crunchy like that :)

Quote from: "rncekel"
It is the first movement, because the second will be an Adagio (still slower), and the third it's planned to be an Agitato.

well, i look forward to hearing the rest of it, particularly the agitato.
sorry if i came off a bit harsh, i admire you for attempting such a task, solo classical instruments can be fiendishly difficult to realistically track... tho i have found piano to be rather fun.

you mentioned that you made the sets yourself, would you mind sharing the viola and cello?
i play the violin and keep intending on making a large multi-layered soundfont, havnt gotten around to it yet tho...

Offline Sam_Zen

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[Classical] - Was f?r ein Leben! (ogg) First movement of a s
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2006, 01:26:44 »
Quote from: "Snu"
well first of all, Dont Zip An Ogg!

Relax. Indeed as a filesize matter it's nonsense, but it can be useful beside that, just as a format.
All my tracks, I offer on the Inet, are ogg's, but I have zipped them for actual download, just to prevent people to stream the file and decide to cut it off after 10 seconds, because the intro wasn't that interesting enough. .

2rncekel
Although I don't like western classical mucic normally, this is a very fine piece.
The number of movement in the total is not my concern. The sounds are crisp, no dips of samples here, playing it back with IrfanView or JetAudio. I wonder how much channels you have used for this, because it would be a nice one to make a four-channel production.
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Offline rncekel

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[Classical] - Was f?r ein Leben! (ogg) First movement of a s
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2006, 07:10:37 »
To Sam Zen:
I have used just 5 channels. I needed the 5th because the effect column of every instruments was almost always full (the samples had no vibrato, so I had to added) and I wanted the tempo to have slight changes almost constantly, that making a more natural sound. But may be it would be possible to reduce it to 4 channels.

To Snu:
I will gladly share my instruments. Only, as I decided not to make loops (a bowed string can't play indefinetely, it should change the direction of the bow, that is, retrigger the note) and put a sample for each note, the size of each instrument is around 20 M (they are in iti format). I will try to find a place to put them so you can download them, or, if you have somewhere where I can upload them, tell me.
I will be very pleased if you could make something better from them; you know, I don't play any bowed string, so this has been a difficult task for me.

EDIT:
Here are the links; I have rarified the files, so they take now 13 M each.

http://www.fileupyours.com/files/15339/cellof.rar
http://www.fileupyours.com/files/15339/violaf.rar

Offline Sam_Zen

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[Classical] - Was f?r ein Leben! (ogg) First movement of a s
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2006, 00:28:14 »
2rncekel
The right attitude i.m.o. : using as less channels as possible, only expand if things have to be simultaneous.
I can't judge if it could have been 4 chans, therefore I should see the trackerfile itself.

Of course these sounds are extremely difficult to loop, because the character of the sound changes during the note.
So just repeating the sample would often lead to 'jumps' in the sound. There are some ways though to make this more smoothly, especially with samples of strings, choirs, etc (enquires heavy zooming in on the waveforms) :
a - Make sure first and last sample-points of the instrument are at zero level. (if they are not, apply fades in and out on a very small selection of points at start and end. Some millisecs will not affect the hearing of it.)
b - Analyze the first two and the last two samples of the sound. If the 2nd and the prelast points are different in polarity (so above or under the zero-line), it's probably ok to loop directly. If their polarity is the same you can imagine a 'strange' jump in the waveform, because normally it swings from positive to negative and vice versa. If so :
c - Select the whole waveform and reverse the phase 180 degrees, in other words : upside down. Then paste this after the original, to create a new waveform. Having a double length of course. But with the transition from end-byte to a new start in the loop in a normal way, from plus through zero to minus or vv.
d - If still not satisfied with it, one could try to select the new, double waveform, reverse it in time, so horizontal, and paste it after the double waveform. So the duration of the sound is twice as long. But present fluctuations in sound during the single instrument-sample will probably have a more 'natural' action while looping.

Never worked with the iti-format, so I will see.
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Offline Louigi Verona

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[Classical] - Was f?r ein Leben! (ogg) First movement of a s
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2006, 10:31:59 »
I will not touch upon any technical aspects.
 Musically the tune is very interesting. However, imho, the composition lacks some dynamics. The intro is very beautiful, but to the middle of the track it simply gets boring. The ending also doesn't offer any challenges to the ear.
 Nice tune, but in my opinion requires further work.

Offline Sam_Zen

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[Classical] - Was f?r ein Leben! (ogg) First movement of a s
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2006, 23:25:25 »
2 rncekel
I have to explain here : I was not talking about using four channels in the tracker module, but using four channels in the final production as a wav-file. These productions can be made of a module with 12 channels or whatever.
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Offline Louigi Verona

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[Classical] - Was f?r ein Leben! (ogg) First movement of a s
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2006, 06:11:54 »
Quote from: "Sam_Zen"
2 rncekel
I have to explain here : I was not talking about using four channels in the tracker module, but using four channels in the final production as a wav-file. These productions can be made of a module with 12 channels or whatever.


Why should you need 4 wave channels??!

Offline Sam_Zen

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[Classical] - Was f?r ein Leben! (ogg) First movement of a s
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2006, 23:35:59 »
2 Louigi Verona
(This was a topic in the pre-crash forum too, which I don't like to start again, but ..)
Obviously I need the 4-channel wavs to feed 2 stereo amplifiers towards four speakers in my studio.
Maybe this page will explain the concept. (I still have to translate the complete text from dutch to english).
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Offline rncekel

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[Classical] - Was f?r ein Leben! (ogg) First movement of a s
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2006, 08:56:15 »
To Sam Zen:
I only use 2 channels (stereo), because I have just stereo equipment; as I can't monitor 4 channels, I don't try to make that. May be in the future...

Offline Matt Hartman

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[Classical] - Was f?r ein Leben! (ogg) First movement of a s
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2006, 20:48:43 »
Compositional wise, the song is great.

Don't worry about the movements, just write what you feel is appropriate for the theme. Don't hinder yourself with rules now that you have learned them. We are never going to build new musical ideas by continuously following traditional classical form.

The samples are workable. I was shocked that you didn't add any artificial inflections in the tracker to bring out mood and dynamics. I think that would have made the song more interesting and inviting.

I tried to d/l the samples to work with them but I can't for some odd reason?

Great song!
Yeah, sure. Right. Whatever.