Bass Saturation for contemporary loud levels.

Started by Saint-Bit, January 11, 2024, 20:01:30

Previous topic - Next topic

Saint-Bit

I discussed saturation some time ago, (a few years ago now) and really arrived at that saturation really is best in the bass area only. The Bass Enhancer algorithm in OpenMPT might be better done as a minimal phase FIR split (selectable freq) that goes to a third order softclip (selectable gain and threshold). This is then mixed back with the other band, and goes to clip, (selectable gain). This (with the current stuff and EQ) will give a loud master in line with the tracker mindset, compatible with the many music modules available for it. This because most of the energy is in the bass area, which tolerates quite a bit of processing. (The rest tolerates a bit of clip)

I suggest this as a feature and update of the bass enhancer part.

https://youtu.be/TIrStlIoGY4

𝘙𝘢 𝘩𝘢𝘴 𝘯𝘰 𝘴𝘶𝘣𝘥𝘦𝘪𝘵𝘺.

Saga Musix

OpenMPT's Bass Expansion and other DSPs are legacy features that only exist to cater for existing users of the software that have previously used these effects. The low quality (they are late-90s DSP implementations after all) and total lack of control (no settings saved in module files, always applied on the final stereo mix) makes them unsuitable for any sort of serious use case. You can always add better effects through VST plugins to your taste.
» No support, bug reports, feature requests via private messages - they will not be answered. Use the forums and the issue tracker so that everyone can benefit from your post.

Saint-Bit

IT format is nearly there (despite being 90s). It could be a development of the IT format, WITH saved settings on these things.

VST Plugins gets messy I think, and is totally overkill and really the same DSP, just more fragmented.

-Peace.
𝘙𝘢 𝘩𝘢𝘴 𝘯𝘰 𝘴𝘶𝘣𝘥𝘦𝘪𝘵𝘺.

Exhale

I admit, when many years ago, dos was going out of general use and i realised i had to move to windows to make my tracks, i found modplug (before it was open source) and didnt want to use it because my tracks simply didnt sound as bassey... and so i put off moving to modplug for a few more years using the fact that windows was still on top of dos as a way to keep using impulse tracker... so yeah i enjoy the control i get with vsts and the directx plugin eq thing to get the results i want these days, and yeah it is easy and all to common especially with my older earphones to go a bit overboard on the bass because i love bass. I think it might be a good idea to have some kind of eq saved with the tracks that isnt a vst or directx, i dont think it would hurt the software at all... it would likely make the files a bit bigger, depending on the way it is put in, but it might be better than layering many directx eqs since with those you are only able to cover one band per instance in the track at any one time. I think it would be cleaner to just have an eq tab with maybe an ability to set the ammount of bands. They could even be automated with the effect column in the pattern editor some time in the future if we find a way... maybe something like max 10 bands and the effect is something like C#5 01 v64 17F the first number being the band, 1 in this example, and the rest as normal. If the effect is out of the question, then cool, even a static central one saved with the track would be a good idea i think, so we dont have to reach into vsts or directx effects every time.
___________________
The turtle moves!

Saint-Bit

Agree with saving settings being a wanted feature. Eit? (Extended IT format).
𝘙𝘢 𝘩𝘢𝘴 𝘯𝘰 𝘴𝘶𝘣𝘥𝘦𝘪𝘵𝘺.

Saga Musix

This "extended" IT format already exists and is called MPTM. Saving DSP settings in files would be exactly the same as using plugins, whose settings are already saved in module files. If you want an effect like this to be applied to every single module you create, put it in a template song. Please just stop beating a dead horse - if we wanted to have this feature in OpenMPT, it would be realized as a plugin, and not as a global DSP. There is absolutely no benefit in doing it any other way. Same with EQ settings - if we wanted them to be part of a song, we would add an EQ plugin, and not do it through the legacy DSP system.
» No support, bug reports, feature requests via private messages - they will not be answered. Use the forums and the issue tracker so that everyone can benefit from your post.

Saint-Bit

Legacy DSP system?  8)

It is quite good actually, I would just do a purer type saturation algorithm, maybe selectable lower bands of a minimal phase FIR EQ, that goes to a third order sat. This is a bit tighter than the current one, which was my point only, and the whole thing going to clip.

This gives the "old school" feeling of sound, without "plugins".  ^-^

-Peace.
𝘙𝘢 𝘩𝘢𝘴 𝘯𝘰 𝘴𝘶𝘣𝘥𝘦𝘪𝘵𝘺.

Saga Musix

I think you keep interpreting too much into the term "plugin". You treat it as something some third-party developers that you first have to download. OpenMPT comes with several built-in plugins. They work exactly like VST plugins, with the differrence that they are always there in OpenMPT, with no need to download them. Very much like Renoise's built-in DSPs. Whether the sound is old-skool or not does not depend on the implementation detail of whether the configuration for the sound shows up in OpenMPT's outdated DSP tab or somewhere in the plugin section.
» No support, bug reports, feature requests via private messages - they will not be answered. Use the forums and the issue tracker so that everyone can benefit from your post.

Saint-Bit

Hmm. So you are skeptical of this?

An other thing, you removed the polyphase filter aswell?  8)
𝘙𝘢 𝘩𝘢𝘴 𝘯𝘰 𝘴𝘶𝘣𝘥𝘦𝘪𝘵𝘺.

manx

Quote from: Saint-Bit on February 06, 2024, 05:15:23An other thing, you removed the polyphase filter aswell?  8)

The "Polyphase" filter was not removed. The "polyphase" aspect of a filter implementation is merely an implementation detail and not a proper description of the underlying interpolation mechanism, which is why we renamed "Polyphase" to "Sinc with Low-Pass" and "XMMS-ModPlug" to "Sinc" in 1.28 (4 years ago) (see https://openmpt.org/release_notes/History.txt). The new names communicate better what the filter actually does. The old names were very inconsistent and did not make any sense at all really.

Saint-Bit

Polyphase potentially has little interpolation error, because it samples to a higher rate, lowpass filters, and then new rate. Which is very good about this filter. Why did you call it sinc? Does it use the Sinc kernel?

One can ofcourse do this aswell, but then you have the problem of ringing.

Lenght could also be more than 8 samples these days. 12?
𝘙𝘢 𝘩𝘢𝘴 𝘯𝘰 𝘴𝘶𝘣𝘥𝘦𝘪𝘵𝘺.

manx

Quote from: Saint-Bit on February 07, 2024, 12:51:43Polyphase potentially has little interpolation error, because it samples to a higher rate, lowpass filters, and then new rate. Which is very good about this filter. Why did you call it sinc? Does it use the Sinc kernel?

Whether a particular filter applies low-pass anti-aliasing has nothing to do with its implementation detail "Polyphase". Yes, both Sinc filters in OpenMPT use 8-tap truncated windowed sinc function kernels. As a matter of fact, the cubic interpolation filter is also implemented as polyphase. The word polyphase really tells you nothing of interest here, which is why we renamed it.

Saint-Bit

𝘙𝘢 𝘩𝘢𝘴 𝘯𝘰 𝘴𝘶𝘣𝘥𝘦𝘪𝘵𝘺.

Saint-Bit

𝘙𝘢 𝘩𝘢𝘴 𝘯𝘰 𝘴𝘶𝘣𝘥𝘦𝘪𝘵𝘺.