OpenMPT is **** (not user-friendly)

Started by PRAYTHEPO, January 24, 2023, 16:33:39

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PRAYTHEPO

I have been using other trackers like FastTracker 2, MilkyTracker, Renoise, BeroTracker and others fora long time, but i've never seen such stupid and idiotic user interface. You can throw shit into my face but i wont take my words back. OpenMPt is the most popular and most unusable tracker software in the world.

Even setting all the instruments for a project is pain in the ass. Glitchy filter, uncomfortable using of vsts, GUI fucked up from its roots.
Pattern editing is much easier than setting instrument/samples combination. WTF?

All key commands by default are make me sick and go insane. Play - F5, Stop - ESC. Why not default? Ctrl/Shift/Enter - play song/pattern, ESC/Space - stop/edit.

Overall UI quality is poor. Windows are massive, pattern editor is squeezed horizontally and even larger font do not help. It doesn't feel liek a complete piece of software. It feels like "forever beta".

I have so much to say, but i dont want to write whole diploma on this forum. Evey user who is adequate and appreciates his time can sign up under my words.
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Dear developers, if you love trackers, you has to understand  - no need to reinvent bicycle, just make it better. But you decided to create bocycle with triangle wheels and steering wheel in a form of doublesided ****.

I tried to conquer this software for 5 times and every time i stuck on something stupid. Workflow must be easy, I want to write music, not to mess with setting all up for 4 hours.

Good idea, bad execution.

P.S. Note-off command by default MUST be Caps Lock, it is tradition for all the trackers.

Saga Musix

#1
Who forced you to use OpenMPT to go that sour? If you don't like it, go and use whatever software you want. The more different software there is, the better. Not every tracker needs to be to every musician's taste.

QuoteAll key commands by default are make me sick and go insane. Play - F5, Stop - ESC. Why not default? Ctrl/Shift/Enter - play song/pattern, ESC/Space - stop/edit.
QuoteP.S. Note-off command by default MUST be Caps Lock, it is tradition for all the trackers.
This shows how much you know about the diversity of "all" trackers. OpenMPT's default keybindings are close to a lot of Impulse Tracker's keybindings rather than FastTracker's, and neither Impulse Tracker nor its inofficial predecessor, Scream Tracker 3 - both immensely popular trackers of the era - use Caps Lock as key-off. F5 is the way to start pattern playback on both Scream Tracker 3 and Impulse Tracker, Schism Tracker, Chibi Tracker, etc. OpenMPT does not claim to be a FastTracker clone. If you want a modern tracker with a FastTracker look&feel, use Renoise.

In summary: Just because you are used to FastTracker keybindings, please don't project your opinion on other people.

Almost every keyboard shortcut is customizable in OpenMPT, unlike in FastTracker or MilkyTracker. If you are seriously interested in making things according to your taste, you could help by providing a key map that's closer to those trackers. Or tell us what you find so frustrating about setting up instruments, so that we can make it better. But given your language I doubt that you intend to be helpful.

Good Bye.
» No support, bug reports, feature requests via private messages - they will not be answered. Use the forums and the issue tracker so that everyone can benefit from your post.

PRAYTHEPO

Quote from: Saga Musix on January 24, 2023, 17:35:42Who forced you to use OpenMPT to go that sour? If you don't like it, go and use whatever software you want. The more different software there is, the better. Not every tracker needs to be to every musician's taste.

I tried to use OpenMPT for its potential (unlimited tracks, stereo sampling, VST support, good basic sampling operations). Great, absolutely great free (appreciate this very much) alternative for Renoise which needs some polish.

Yes, differencies make things unique, but unique is not equal to good. Why am I so toxic and drop this words here? Cuz everyone can and must criticize things to influence their development, no matter what it is: software, hardware, music, movies etc.

Yes, not every tracker needs to please everyone's taste, but there is common principles of any DAW (which any trackers is in the shell) and the main is accesibility.

I dont use trackers made for psychos who like to waste their time instead of writing music, like Schism Tracker for example. Thats the reason why i may be incompetent in some different kinds of trackers, I accept that lack of knowledge.

Also, as you didnt say anything about UI and overall instrument/sample operations, that means that i am right. Great potential in OpenMPT is limited by its crappy logic and poor UI.

This post was the only reason to register here. I know how much effort and how much hours are spent to develop this software, but sometimes we need to accept our mistakes.

This discussion will lead to nowhere, cuz everyone today is soft as teddy bear and can't take criticism because they think it's toxic.

Thanks for your answer. BB.

Exhale

#3
I can understand the frustration expressed here in intentionally confrontational language, and I agree with the sentiment that everyone needs to be able to take criticisms...

These days I can make a tune in modplug in a few measly hours (sometimes as little as 2) but I also know it took me MANY years to get to the stage I am at now, and I NEVER recommend ompt to a beginner because of the insanely long time it took me to learn what I know now and I am still always finding out new interesting things - which is why I lurk on these forums, reading almost anything that is posted in hopes that I will find new insights on more efficient ways to do things I have been breaking my back doing in the past. This is something that happened to me recently actually when I learned about the LFO btw - great job on that btw saga, I have recently started using it for all sorts of things...
BUT - I had to come here to learn about it and how it works... there is literally nothing in the help documentation... I know because I checked by searching LFO in the help thing, and so I had to come here to find out about it, did a search for LFO and found a few years old topic about it, which is how I know it was your project saga.

to be clear, I might have actually seen the topic when it came up, but I had no idea what was being talked about (I am sure I was overwhelmed with learning vsts at the time - which is a never ending struggle since every new vst is a whole new galaxy of possibility)... but with my new linux partition I had a completely new and clean version of vanilla ompt and I looked through all the provided tools in the vst section before I installed any vsts just so I could tag every one of them with the vanilla tag so I would know I can use them if I want to make tunes that can play in vanilla ompt, and that is when I found it.

I think if we look past the spitting hatred here we can open our minds to how this happens and maybe we could actually make ompt more inviting for new users... something I have been trying to hint this wonderful software could actually do... Demo songs are great the help documents is extensive, and they are how I remember learning the basics when I first picked up ompt... years of diving into them, and I still do it every now and then... but maybe a welcome screen specifically made for new users could be implemented in the first pop up once ompt is installed - an obvious  x box with the caption "I am a new user" unclicked by default.

If it is clicked some basic guidance could be given (with a skip this section of the tutorial option for people who have tracked before in other trackers but need to be introduced to ompt specifically) with arrows and text and care, something like this could be so good for the software.

It would, without doubt, be a massive project to undertake. But I think it would be well worth the effort.
Ompt is great software, and it can be very confusing to understand for people who arent bloody minded enough to press buttons just to see what they fucking do (like I was :P)...

Anyways - that is how I think we can look at this post, those are the thoughts I am taking from this, remembering my first years with ompt and tracking in general and how confusing finding everything out was in both situations.

my 2 cents.
I admit one of the things that helped me a hell of a lot when I changed to ompt from impulse tracker was that I could set ompt to the keyboard layout impulse - and since I almost exclusively used keyboard shortcuts in impulse, - I was about half way there, I just had to learn the interface for everything again, which - admittedly took me longer than my rose tinted glasses might want me to admit.
So theoretically, even I had an easier time that our OP here... so I admit I have sympathy for his struggle.
To you - mr PrayThePo - I would like to say, once you get the hang of the system in ompt, it can become a thing you love with all your heart, I know it is to me - but I still have my memories of the struggles I went through, admittedly through the fog of many years, but they are there - so many times swearing at the computer, diving deeper into the help documents saying to myself "I know I can do this, how the fuck do I do it" scouring the forums here for insights into how each thing works and the relief when I finally got my two brain cells to understand.
If you would like to talk about it and would actually like to use this software, which I think you do from your passion here I am guessing that you have learned of what ompt can do and you want to do it right now, then please feel free to put some curious messages in the forums here, or even pm me at least, and if I can help you I will try to do so.
I am sorry you are frustrated, I feel ya man. I was there - many years ago - but there none the less, but I was determined and bloody minded enough to find out what I have found out in my own ways by making music and getting better and better at it.
I dont know what trackers you have used in the past but believe me, I feel the same way you do when trying to use ompt whenever I try to open any daw and I always quit before I even make a single tune... new things that dont work the way we expect them to are very frustrating, but that is ok... you can do it!
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The turtle moves!

n0cturn

Just thought id give my opinion.

I've been away from trackers for 20 years and I've found openmpt very easy to use and get back into trackers, and I think the UI is a big part of it, the modern scalable interface which old trackers never had. I tried Renoise and Milkytracker, Protrekker but the interface is still stuck in the 90s

I too had issues with the keyboard layout and sample/instrument parts when I started messing about with OpenMPT, but its just part of learning a new program and certainly hasn't stopped me making use of the program and I'm still learning something every time i use it.

I for one am grateful that OpenMPT exists and is actively developed/supported

herodotas

Modplug is opensource, you always can make your fork of it.

Rakib

I remember I had problems using FT2 when it first came out, stopped and then discovered Modplug Tracker. I really liked the windows style of interface and windows, I have tried others like, Psycle and Renoise, Madtracker but I really find the GUI to be easy to master.
^^

Exhale

Yeah I have to be honest, Fasttracker's interface irritated me to no end, and I never got the hang of it, but that wasnt the reason I stopped trying. I stopped because impulse tracker was more powerful for what I wanted to do (or so I thought) and then when it came to the stage of ditching impulse because of dos there was simply no question that what I needed to learn was mpt. At first I was very anti a windows based bit of software that was all point and click, but yeah these days I dont even use the F buttons to change tabs.
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The turtle moves!