Author Topic: Would it be possible to make an iPad or other tablet build?  (Read 1626 times)

Offline Exhale

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Just out of curiosity, no pressure at all, but just wondering if it would be particularly hard to pull off an iPad or other tablet version of modplug. If not it might be a great way to get modplug into the hands of new curious users.

: edit : especially now that we have begun integrating it with UNIX, android is UNIX based, so maybe that would be a semi easy option. I can fully understand if there is no capability for doing it in Apple products, there doesn't seem to be any chance of that really since it uses basic Windows systems heavily.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2019, 00:24:02 by Exhale »
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Offline StarWolf3000

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Re: Would it be possible to make an iPad or other tablet build?
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2019, 10:27:45 »
At the moment, OpenMPT heavily relies on Windows-native functionality. This may change with a planned port to Qt in the far far future, but I don't think there will ever be a port to mobile devices. And there is not UNIX integration, and the bit of non-Windows code is more to make it work together with Wine (which simulates a Windows environment).

The main reason for the never-to-be mobile version: The UI is not meant to be used with a touchscreen, and there is a distinction between touch interaction and mouse interaction. Most music trackers can only be controlled with a more precise input method, like mouse for selection and drag'n'drop actions or some kind of keyboard (for example LSDJ on Game Boy), and there are also lots of keyboard shortcuts, that simply can't be mapped to touch commands. Trying to select a range of notes and/or effects, even across channels, would be a pain with a touch input.

Try to input notes, instruments and effects with parameters in a cell in a channel, with a touch input. I don't think you would want that.

For Apple devices, not only are you required to have access to a mac (its the only supported method to develop for iOS devices), but also have to pay a yearly license fee. Its a bit more relaxed for Android devices, since you're not bound to specific hardware for development, but the yearly license fee for the Play Store is not optional.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2019, 10:31:25 by StarWolf3000 »

Offline Saga Musix

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Re: Would it be possible to make an iPad or other tablet build?
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2019, 12:50:11 »
Never say never but it is indeed very unlikely that a mobile port will happen anytime soon. First, we have to get the multiplatform business sorted out, and then we can still think about whether it makes sense to support keyboard-less interaction at all - most likely it won't.
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Offline Exhale

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Re: Would it be possible to make an iPad or other tablet build?
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2019, 13:39:39 »
I thought as much, but I decided to bring up the topic anyways as a thought experiment / food for thought kind of thing. Thank you both for great pragmatic replies.

It would be a great thing to have epic mobile support for this wonderful software, but I fully understood the whole concept was a large leap into the dark.
I admit I was thinking of a completely scaled down kind of version, because I realize the tablets out there are not as capable as the average PC. Also I did expect the OSs on the common devices would be a problem.

Thank you again for informative replies, and I hope you are both well, I also hope the post gave you a little bit of inspiration to think outside the box, which is something we all need.

One last thought, if you guys ever find yourselves capable of porting the code into a completely native UNIX system, I would be honored, as a designer, to help with graphic design for the interface on the project, and I am sure there are other designers here who would love to help too.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2019, 13:45:22 by Exhale »
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Offline Rakib

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Re: Would it be possible to make an iPad or other tablet build?
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2019, 22:12:36 »
Is libopenmpt just an engine for playing tracker files, or could it be used to make a custom GUI on top of libopenmpt?
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Offline manx

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Re: Would it be possible to make an iPad or other tablet build?
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2019, 22:20:41 »
libopenmpt is only meant as a playback library. And frankly, we currently do not have the time to promote it to some kind of general underlying tracker engine which could be used by multiple different GUIs.

Most of the tracker-related logic is currently tightly coupled with the GUI code itself.

Also see related issues https://bugs.openmpt.org/view.php?id=782 and https://bugs.openmpt.org/view.php?id=783 .

Offline LDAsh

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Re: Would it be possible to make an iPad or other tablet build?
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2019, 04:35:05 »
As for Android, I've been trying off and on for 5 years now to find something to complement OpenMPT for on-the-go composing, with a format like XM or IT, and the only thing (still) is MilkyTracker which is borderline unusable, even after getting bluetooth peripherals for my phone.  MIDI gets more decent and plentiful but trying to convert MIDI to say IT is not great for me, the way I compose things with samples for every half or full octave.  I really should look into doing that with MIDI - how to transpose notes in a range AND move them into a separate channel, to then more easily set up instruments in OpenMPT the way I do - but that's a different topic...

https://forum.openmpt.org/index.php?topic=5004

Ultimately, I decided one day I might go with something like a GPDWin2 (a later revision) or similar so I can actually use wonderful software like OpenMPT, because it's been 5 years and only drum-machines and sample-pads and other DJ-centric toys are more popular than ever on the Playstore.  Maybe by the time I wait, something like that LimboPC app (to virtualise something like Win98) would mature enough to be an option.

Offline Exhale

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Re: Would it be possible to make an iPad or other tablet build?
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2019, 09:37:11 »
I have an ipad and an android phone, I admit when I started this topic I was imagining using my large ipad for tracking on the go, but yeah the apple store is a horrid place compared to android, I have much more useful and interesting software from the google's play store than I have on my ipad from apples excuse for a store - I only take free software, and with apple that pretty much universally means invasive advertising.
I think I stumbled across an android emulator for apple somewhere, but I didnt take it, but I would revisit that kind of concept, even look into replacing the apple horseshit of an OS with android entirely if I can find some kind of solution that isnt milky tracker, as you said in the other topic LDAsh milky tracker is borderline unusable, and I think that is being mild - on my android I have had more fun and success tracking on emulators for supernintendo - but of coarse - getting the music from the phone in those cases means uneditable pure recordings.
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Offline LPChip

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Re: Would it be possible to make an iPad or other tablet build?
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2019, 10:32:16 »
Given that with android you can connect usb peripherals such as keyboards, couldn't you in theory use milkytracker natively with a keyboard instead of midi hardware? or is that version of MilkyTracker very different than the pc version?

This is also something that could eventually be a requirement for OpenMPT for iPad,Android: You must also use a keyboard.

Android phones and tablets can actually use a bluetooth keyboard or an OTG cable to connect a wired keyboard and use that quite well.
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Offline LDAsh

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Re: Would it be possible to make an iPad or other tablet build?
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2019, 13:16:50 »
I have a bluetooth keyboard and unless I'm doing something wrong, you'd think the keys correspond to plotting a note in the sequencer like on the PC version, but it doesn't.  The best it really gets is cursor keys while in 'jam' mode.  There's just something about that port of MilkyTracker that is too convoluted to use, all the scrollbar fidgeting (that snap and don't scroll) and chunky clunky UI.  I really feel bad crapping on it so much, it's better than nothing, but I just can never see myself losing hair to compose anything with it.  A keyboard does not seem to really help it.

I was going to say, hopefully the iOS side of things must be better, but apparently not?  I can say by this point, if somebody did want to work on a decent OpenMPT-like app for smartphones, not even necessarily a really advanced one (more or less like NitroTrackerDS) they'd have a free and dedicated graphics guy and tester out of me. 

Offline Exhale

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Re: Would it be possible to make an iPad or other tablet build?
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2019, 14:44:32 »
LPChip: "...could eventually be a requirement for OpenMPT for iPad,Android: You must also use a keyboard."

well apple and android devices come with a keyboard overlay system, so  physical keyboard is not a necessity to use anything that needs a keyboard, on the smaller devices like my phone the keys are quite small, but I can handle them pretty well, it took a bit of getting used to, but it is not particularly difficult.

LDAsh: "I was going to say, hopefully the iOS side of things must be better, but apparently not?"

I do like the iOS which runs very well on my iPad 2, I am pleased with its functionality, but I would drop it all in a heartbeat if I could get a good tracker on the thing via some method - I have been having trouble finding good software for it, and this has been my main problem, but I have been investigating something called 'jailbreaking' it which apparently gives you access to software for the device that isnt on apples horrible store, so there might be a light at the end of the tunnel on that front. I imagine if we ever got a Modplug that would work on iPads or any other portable apple device it would probably require jailbreaking to be installed because it gives you access to another store, and we would certainly not want to pay apple any money to get an open source + free software like modplug into peoples' hands from their store.
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Offline Saga Musix

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Re: Would it be possible to make an iPad or other tablet build?
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2019, 18:42:36 »
well apple and android devices come with a keyboard overlay system, so  physical keyboard is not a necessity to use anything that needs a keyboard, on the smaller devices like my phone the keys are quite small, but I can handle them pretty well, it took a bit of getting used to, but it is not particularly difficult.
Just try to imagine for a second how usable OpenMPT's pattern editor would be if half of it would be obscured by an on-screen keyboard with absolutely no haptic freedback.

My personal recommendation: Get a 13-14 inch laptop for the go. It works better for OpenMPT than any tablet could ever do.
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Offline Exhale

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Re: Would it be possible to make an iPad or other tablet build?
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2019, 18:53:13 »
Just try to imagine for a second how usable OpenMPT's pattern editor would be if half of it would be obscured by an on-screen keyboard with absolutely no haptic freedback.

My personal recommendation: Get a 13-14 inch laptop for the go. It works better for OpenMPT than any tablet could ever do.

Yeah I get what you are saying... I will see what I can find

I admit I am in a tablet / touch screen mode lately, totally entranced by them.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2019, 23:01:20 by Exhale »
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