Author Topic: How can I get all channels to actually produce any sound?  (Read 40813 times)

Offline Theultimate12

  • Active artist
  • *
  • Posts: 31
  • Operating System: Windows
Re: How can I get all channels to actually produce any sound?
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2016, 21:56:23 »
My best guess would be that your melodic samples don't have loop lengths that are divisible by 16, so the tool probably adjusts the loop length, but by changing the loop length of a sample with a very short loop, you also change the loop's pitch. So make sure that all loop lengths are divisible by 16, and then manually adjust the frequency of the sample until it's correct again (or try using the auto-tuner by clicking on the tuning fork icon).

All right. Gonna try this now.

Offline Brozilla

  • Inspired artist
  • **
  • Posts: 85
  • Gender: Male
  • Operating System: Windows 10
Re: How can I get all channels to actually produce any sound?
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2016, 00:40:13 »
Like SagaX mentioned there are tuning options under the sample panel. Altering the frequency and as mention sample length will affect the pitch. If you require correct pitch the auto tuner will work almost every time. If you have a hard time finding a loop point then use a cross-fade. It'll help 98% of the time, the 2% being extremely short sample lengths and/or loop points.

If I remember correctly 'B' is considered the center of pitch [in the SNES] as opposed to C or something like that. Not sure what you mean by portamento isn't any good. This helped me a lot with learning the .it effects.
http://wiki.openmpt.org/Manual:_Effect_Reference
44.1 vs. 48khz sampling rate

Offline Theultimate12

  • Active artist
  • *
  • Posts: 31
  • Operating System: Windows
Re: How can I get all channels to actually produce any sound?
« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2016, 01:21:08 »
My best guess would be that your melodic samples don't have loop lengths that are divisible by 16, so the tool probably adjusts the loop length, but by changing the loop length of a sample with a very short loop, you also change the loop's pitch. So make sure that all loop lengths are divisible by 16, and then manually adjust the frequency of the sample until it's correct again (or try using the auto-tuner by clicking on the tuning fork icon).

All right. Gonna try this now.

*sigh* I am trying my best to understand how to make stuff like this on OpenMPT, but the interface is just so confusing that it makes it way harder than it already is. Like really, I cant even get the sounds right nor can I edit the patterns well when there is just so many of them. Tbh, I may try to at least make the song in SNESGSS because its interface is just so much easier, and if I cant do it in there, then I will give OpenMPT another try and see if it works again. If only SNES Tracker gets released, though, then maybe I could actually do echo and reverb (along with being way more faithful in making SNES music than OpenMPT), but with a interface that`s (probably) way easier to understand. I dont really know if there is a way to change the interface, but still, I am wasting too much of my time trying to even start the music. Again, sorry. XD

Offline Brozilla

  • Inspired artist
  • **
  • Posts: 85
  • Gender: Male
  • Operating System: Windows 10
Re: How can I get all channels to actually produce any sound?
« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2016, 05:57:33 »
*sigh* I am trying my best to understand how to make stuff like this on OpenMPT, but the interface is just so confusing that it makes it way harder than it already is. Like really, I cant even get the sounds right nor can I edit the patterns well when there is just so many of them. Tbh, I may try to at least make the song in SNESGSS because its interface is just so much easier, and if I cant do it in there, then I will give OpenMPT another try and see if it works again. If only SNES Tracker gets released, though, then maybe I could actually do echo and reverb (along with being way more faithful in making SNES music than OpenMPT), but with a interface that`s (probably) way easier to understand. I dont really know if there is a way to change the interface, but still, I am wasting too much of my time trying to even start the music. Again, sorry. XD
When it comes to learning ANY tracker the most fundamental thing, in my opinion, is learning the keybindings and interface. I've not fully migrated into OpenMPT but it's difficult to assess the core of the problem. Normally this shouldn't happen but in the coding community it isn't too uncommon. Do you mind sharing us your project? Even if just a bit; screenshots, while not as useful, might help crack it down. If the issue is simply you're unfamiliar with OpenMPT then we can leave it at that. MilkyTracker is where I started and actually NEEDED a youtube tutorial to get started. Awhile back before that I had the program but no idea how to do anything so just removed it.

Here is a little story. I wanted to make original songs that sound like Donkey Kong Country using its samples. First step was learning MilkyTracker but even though I'd imitate echo/delay within the score and channels it wasn't enough. I needed to go closer and that led me to OpenMPT & SNESMOD. It may sound acceptable and even decent but once you get a hold of that echo buffer I don't think you'll want to go back...... but that might just be me xD
« Last Edit: June 11, 2016, 07:49:35 by Enumeratingw7 »
44.1 vs. 48khz sampling rate

Offline Saga Musix

  • OpenMPT Developers
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,534
  • aka Jojo
    • Download music, samples, VST plugins: Saga Musix Website
  • Operating System: Windows 10 x64
Re: How can I get all channels to actually produce any sound?
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2016, 12:49:13 »
Yes, please give more detailed descriptions than just "I can't get it to work". You have the ingredients to tune your samples (adjust loop lengths and using the auto-tuner or manual tuning), now you have to describe at which step you fail.
» No support, bug reports, feature requests via private messages - they will not be answered. Use the forums and the issue tracker so that everyone can benefit from your post.

Offline Theultimate12

  • Active artist
  • *
  • Posts: 31
  • Operating System: Windows
Re: How can I get all channels to actually produce any sound?
« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2016, 14:39:45 »
*sigh* I am trying my best to understand how to make stuff like this on OpenMPT, but the interface is just so confusing that it makes it way harder than it already is. Like really, I cant even get the sounds right nor can I edit the patterns well when there is just so many of them. Tbh, I may try to at least make the song in SNESGSS because its interface is just so much easier, and if I cant do it in there, then I will give OpenMPT another try and see if it works again. If only SNES Tracker gets released, though, then maybe I could actually do echo and reverb (along with being way more faithful in making SNES music than OpenMPT), but with a interface that`s (probably) way easier to understand. I dont really know if there is a way to change the interface, but still, I am wasting too much of my time trying to even start the music. Again, sorry. XD
When it comes to learning ANY tracker the most fundamental thing, in my opinion, is learning the keybindings and interface. I've not fully migrated into OpenMPT but it's difficult to assess the core of the problem. Normally this shouldn't happen but in the coding community it isn't too uncommon. Do you mind sharing us your project? Even if just a bit; screenshots, while not as useful, might help crack it down. If the issue is simply you're unfamiliar with OpenMPT then we can leave it at that. MilkyTracker is where I started and actually NEEDED a youtube tutorial to get started. Awhile back before that I had the program but no idea how to do anything so just removed it.

Here is a little story. I wanted to make original songs that sound like Donkey Kong Country using its samples. First step was learning MilkyTracker but even though I'd imitate echo/delay within the score and channels it wasn't enough. I needed to go closer and that led me to OpenMPT & SNESMOD. It may sound acceptable and even decent but once you get a hold of that echo buffer I don't think you'll want to go back...... but that might just be me xD

Yeah, its probably my fault that I am not really giving enough information. What I mean is that there is 28 different patterns for the song, and that coincides with the interface because SNESGSS actually has a way more simple way, with just one pattern grid and not too hard to edit them. My question is that is there a way to reduce the number of patterns in the song so it becomes easier to edit? Well, I dont think this is going to help much, so here`s the .it file for the song:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vvrhmedobc5k7z1/MM7_Bass.it?dl=0

And sorry I didnt do this earlier, btw, I was just afraid someone would get the file and actually claim it as their own. Kinda of a stupid idea, but ehh.

Offline Saga Musix

  • OpenMPT Developers
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,534
  • aka Jojo
    • Download music, samples, VST plugins: Saga Musix Website
  • Operating System: Windows 10 x64
Re: How can I get all channels to actually produce any sound?
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2016, 15:00:47 »
Quote
so it becomes easier to edit
I think here you're arguing against the nature of almost every tracker in existence. :)
The point of having more than just one big pattern is that you can neatly organize and structure your module, typically you have e.g. 2 or 4 bars in each pattern, and every 4 patterns form a group. You can also resize the patterns if you want to have more information in one pattern, but IMHO there is not much benefit in using patterns longer than 128 rows or so.
And more importantly, the conversion tool will probably not anticipate modules with > 200 rows per pattern, because that's not part of the original IT specifications.

Of course if you just import a MIDI file then things might not be neatly organized into 4 bars per pattern or so, making it harder to edit, but OpenMPT is explicitely not a MIDI editor. By just importing MIDI data into OpenMPT you basically just give up the way you'd normally structure your module, because OpenMPT's MIDI import cannot do this for you.

While the loop points are now divisible by 16 in most of your samples, most of them are not put in sensible places (e.g. right at the sample start, in the sample's attack phase). Optimally the loop should span over a smooth sustained part of the sample, but finding good loop points is an art in itself (especially when they have to be in specific places, like being divisible by 16), and no tracker in the world can help you there. ;)

Quote
I was just afraid someone would get the file and actually claim it as their own.
A file that you yourself just converted from a MIDI file, while it still contains the original MIDI's copyright notice? :P
» No support, bug reports, feature requests via private messages - they will not be answered. Use the forums and the issue tracker so that everyone can benefit from your post.

Offline Theultimate12

  • Active artist
  • *
  • Posts: 31
  • Operating System: Windows
Re: How can I get all channels to actually produce any sound?
« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2016, 16:02:51 »
Quote
so it becomes easier to edit
I think here you're arguing against the nature of almost every tracker in existence. :)
The point of having more than just one big pattern is that you can neatly organize and structure your module, typically you have e.g. 2 or 4 bars in each pattern, and every 4 patterns form a group. You can also resize the patterns if you want to have more information in one pattern, but IMHO there is not much benefit in using patterns longer than 128 rows or so.
And more importantly, the conversion tool will probably not anticipate modules with > 200 rows per pattern, because that's not part of the original IT specifications.

Of course if you just import a MIDI file then things might not be neatly organized into 4 bars per pattern or so, making it harder to edit, but OpenMPT is explicitely not a MIDI editor. By just importing MIDI data into OpenMPT you basically just give up the way you'd normally structure your module, because OpenMPT's MIDI import cannot do this for you.

While the loop points are now divisible by 16 in most of your samples, most of them are not put in sensible places (e.g. right at the sample start, in the sample's attack phase). Optimally the loop should span over a smooth sustained part of the sample, but finding good loop points is an art in itself (especially when they have to be in specific places, like being divisible by 16), and no tracker in the world can help you there. ;)

Quote
I was just afraid someone would get the file and actually claim it as their own.
A file that you yourself just converted from a MIDI file, while it still contains the original MIDI's copyright notice? :P

Hmm, so I need to use a MIDI editor first in order to arrange the patterns? Well, I am gonna see if that works out. Did you see anything else wrong there, though?

EDIT: Well, actually, I think that I might at least try SNESGSS to see if I can make the song with it. Just because that I am having some ideas on how to make the song in SNESGSS, and I at least wanna try those beforehand.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2016, 16:17:01 by Theultimate12 »

Offline Brozilla

  • Inspired artist
  • **
  • Posts: 85
  • Gender: Male
  • Operating System: Windows 10
Re: How can I get all channels to actually produce any sound?
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2016, 17:33:40 »
SagaX has been pretty much on point to say the least 8)
Using a MIDI editor might help you rearrange the notes where you actual start the remix but it's always gonna be split into patterns with 64 bars when imported into OpenMPT. The fact that it's "non-continuous" may not make editing easier but finding mistakes, rotten rhythms, etc. are a lot easier.

The "Starter" folder I shared from the one drive contained to .it files, the one pertaining to your case mostly is Eterna Forest. I included (normally shouldn't) a midi for you to open with OpenMPT and look at the difference. As a result I'm going to try and break it down.

1. MIDI uses multi-sampled instruments/multiple note entries. You will have to edit this in instrument properties if you decide to keep the MIDI instruments. You can look at the Sample Map to determine this.

2. Default MIDI New Note Action is Note Fade for duplicate action. For more accurate/reliable results you're going to want Note Cut.

3. The samples in the IT file should all be divisible by 16. Knowing the "powers of 2's" can help with this, and frankly if you end up with a odd number then you're doing something wrong. Some of the loop points may not be "perfect" but it's hidden pretty well.

4. The MIDI always gives you 32 channels. You can "freely" reduce this for readability, in our case the Eterna MIDI can be brought down to 11 channels.

SNESMOD, though already posted, is found here http://snes.mukunda.com
Drag the Eterna Forest .it into smconvert and it should generate an SPC for you. I believe with SPC700 Player "50% (Mix) feedback" is accurate, based on SNESAMP plugin [if Mix is incorrect it just means I need to make a few edits.]
In SPC700 you can add/remove features, basically listen to what happens without the echo buffer or with Surround Sound disabled (not all games use this) and even taking the FIR Filter off (lower your volume, games like Mortal Kombat use aggressive feedback.)

The Eterna Forest .it is important because it should match and/or exceed the NDS version, particularly played as an SPC. The heavy echoing is actually common among remakes/remixes, more so in the anime. The drum track should be without feedback when played in the surround channel.
44.1 vs. 48khz sampling rate

Offline Theultimate12

  • Active artist
  • *
  • Posts: 31
  • Operating System: Windows
Re: How can I get all channels to actually produce any sound?
« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2016, 20:14:53 »
Well, I have made the song in SNESGSS, but I still dunno how can I make high-frequency sounds (since I am using strings in this cover) having the looping sound clean and the overall instrument have low-volume and not earpiercing and crap, so I dunno. I dont really know if you need to put echo/reverb on it, but if I really cant do this on SNESGSS, then I may try to use OpenMPT again some other time.

EDIT: Here`s the song, btw: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uCy2hqfyhA
« Last Edit: June 12, 2016, 21:01:56 by Theultimate12 »

Offline Brozilla

  • Inspired artist
  • **
  • Posts: 85
  • Gender: Male
  • Operating System: Windows 10
Re: How can I get all channels to actually produce any sound?
« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2016, 23:17:27 »
This is an OpenMPT so I'll reply to you on YouTube. If it's a serious issue I can get SNESGSS and tinker around with it but that'll be the extent of the message.
44.1 vs. 48khz sampling rate

Offline Theultimate12

  • Active artist
  • *
  • Posts: 31
  • Operating System: Windows
Re: How can I get all channels to actually produce any sound?
« Reply #26 on: June 24, 2016, 22:58:51 »
Well, I have been trying to find a perfect looping point for my samples with OpenMPT, but I cant seem to make it not sound like its crackling, along with not sounding like intended. Is there a better way to do this rather than slowly changing the looping point? I can send the samples, if you guys want, but I dunno if that will be necessary or not.

Offline Saga Musix

  • OpenMPT Developers
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,534
  • aka Jojo
    • Download music, samples, VST plugins: Saga Musix Website
  • Operating System: Windows 10 x64
Re: How can I get all channels to actually produce any sound?
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2016, 10:42:23 »
Since without the samples all I can say is "use the spin buttons next to the loop points to find good loop points and the cross-fader to make the loop perfect": Yes, without the actual samples to look at, we can't help you much.
» No support, bug reports, feature requests via private messages - they will not be answered. Use the forums and the issue tracker so that everyone can benefit from your post.

Offline Theultimate12

  • Active artist
  • *
  • Posts: 31
  • Operating System: Windows
Re: How can I get all channels to actually produce any sound?
« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2016, 15:13:55 »
Since without the samples all I can say is "use the spin buttons next to the loop points to find good loop points and the cross-fader to make the loop perfect": Yes, without the actual samples to look at, we can't help you much.

All right, then. Here are the MMX samples I have that are loopable:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rr17de6m4boxnpx/MMX%20Sample%20Pack.rar?dl=0

Offline Saga Musix

  • OpenMPT Developers
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,534
  • aka Jojo
    • Download music, samples, VST plugins: Saga Musix Website
  • Operating System: Windows 10 x64
Re: How can I get all channels to actually produce any sound?
« Reply #29 on: June 25, 2016, 15:44:04 »
Here's a quick attempt. The samples are very short and of low quality, so finding suitable loop points (let alone loop points that are divisible by 16) is pretty hard. If they are ripped from SNES songs, then keep in mind that it's not only the sample itself which defines the sound but also how it's used. Clever swapping between several small, bad-sounding samples can often create the illusion of something that sounds much better in sum.
» No support, bug reports, feature requests via private messages - they will not be answered. Use the forums and the issue tracker so that everyone can benefit from your post.