[OT] Website brainstorm

Harbinger · April 24, 2006, 11:29:11

:? Oh.

NEVER MIND!!!

georg · April 24, 2006, 15:08:06

Quote from: "LPChip"Guys, please keep one thing clear

People give reactions based on THIS site, but Squirrel Havoc is asking advice for HIS site

Rock on Chip! Moderate their asses

I agree with Mr. Hartman's views. Flash is cool, but not in the hands of a fool. And don't forget to "optimize" the graphics. Bells and whistles is nice and all but i hate waiting forever just cos someone with a high spec PC and a fast connection forgot that optimization even exists.

Sjeesh, they made games in less than 40K once...or did they really?

MisterX · April 24, 2006, 15:19:06

Quote from: "Wong"Now, that is something I like about PHP - the huge number of functions that are included just to make things easier for you. Like "stripslashes", and so on.

Agreed - the coolest one ever has to be "strtotime".

Atlantis · April 25, 2006, 04:44:09

Quote from: "Squirrel Havoc"so what kinds of things would you like to see?

Make all your images PNG, unless they're actually high-resolution photographs.

Atlantis · April 25, 2006, 04:54:13

Quote from: "Squirrel Havoc"So what do you think I should add?

A link to my site would be good.

I'll add a link back when I update my site too.

Squirrel Havoc · April 25, 2006, 13:52:13

Quote from: "Atlantis"
Quote from: "Squirrel Havoc"So what do you think I should add?
A link to my site would be good. I'll add a link back when I update my site too.

I could swear I already have a link to your site, but if not, consider it added

Squirrel Havoc · April 25, 2006, 13:54:51

Quote from: "Atlantis"
Quote from: "Squirrel Havoc"so what kinds of things would you like to see?
Make all your images PNG, unless they're actually high-resolution photographs.

PNG is bigger filesize than JPEG, even though the quality is better, I want to go easy on modem users. My site will have very few graphics though, I want all the visual elements to be from HTML/CSS, I think using graphics is like saying "this will only look good at this resolution".

LPChip · April 25, 2006, 14:36:59

Quote from: "Squirrel Havoc"I think using graphics is like saying "this will only look good at this resolution".

I disagree. It really depends on how you use graphics in combination with the objects on your site.

If you use the background parameter with small images, resolution doesn't matter. When you make fixed width tables, you are more resolution depended than having dynamic tables with its background image set. For instance, look at this forum's top bar. You can shrink the site to a width of 400 without making it look crappy. Ofcource there's a moment that it becomes an issue, but thats after the text becomes an issue

DavidN · April 25, 2006, 16:35:59

The size of PNG isn't necessarily larger than JPG - for images with large flat-colour areas the PNG compression can be much greater.

Matt Hartman · April 25, 2006, 17:25:54

Dudes,

I understand that the technical aspects are foundation to a great, flowing site.

But guess what, all the technical mish mash doesn't make a bit of difference if what you're fronting visually looks like pig feet pie.

As a visual designer, it's been my direct experience that most tech types tend to have horrible visual design and layout skills. They tend to focus too much on the technical aspects leaving a lot to be desired to the viewer.

Remember, the common viewer is not going to judge your site because you went with php, they are going to judge it by:

1.) How it looks (should be an obvious answer)
2.) How smoothly (or not) it functions
3.) Your marketing message (yes, you have a marketing message because you are essentially selling yourself even if there's no money making involved)

If you want a really great site which is what I'm assuming you're going for, I can lend you some tips on the matter.

Keep it straight forward and easy to navigate.

Do not clutter your visual space. (this includes tables/text, not just graphics)

Pay attention to color coordination (I can't stress this enough)

Pick just two typefaces to pull from in your CSS

Find a way to offer a simplified, yet attractive layout. (builds interest and branding)

Debating whether to compress with PNG as opposed to JPG or even GIF is a second matter. Coming up with a solid plan of execution that takes all matters of building a great site into account is priority one. For instance, a site map.

I think you started the thread with the big picture in mind but I see the thread is leading in a direction that's getting too asphyxiated on the small details. If you do this, you're going to be spending a lot of time problem solving and not producing a solid working plan. In the end, you will be too close to the details and you will start to notice problems popping up left and right that will take new thought out workarounds.

All this of course means in the end no site to speak of.

Atlantis · April 25, 2006, 17:27:30

Quote from: "Squirrel Havoc"
Quote from: "Atlantis"
Quote from: "Squirrel Havoc"so what kinds of things would you like to see?
Make all your images PNG, unless they're actually high-resolution photographs.

PNG is bigger filesize than JPEG, even though the quality is better, I want to go easy on modem users.

If you saved the current "Welcome" text as PNG-8, I'm sure the size wouldn't be all that much bigger than the current 9 kB, but very ugly, JPEG. In total, this might mean an extra 30 seconds of loading time, which is hardly an issue imo, especially considering you're not looking at ugly compression artefacts.

MisterX · April 25, 2006, 18:18:05

Quote from: "Matt Hartman"
1.) How it looks (should be an obvious answer)
2.) How smoothly (or not) it functions
3.) Your marketing message (yes, you have a marketing message because you are essentially selling yourself even if there's no money making involved)

Very true!

I usually explain to clients that visitors to web sites go to a site for one reason - to get information. Whether that information is a specific product, a song, a video, forum posts, whatever doesn't matter - they click on a link to a web site because they believe that site contains information they are interested in.

The success of a site will be determined by how easily you make it for the visitor to get the information that they came to the site to get. Keeping this in mind, things like the load time of a page, the layout, etc. should become academic.

A great example is the php.net site (since we were discussing PHP) - simple, easy to navigate, easy to find information. Minimal graphics, chock full of information, very Wiki-like.

Sam_Zen · April 26, 2006, 00:09:28

2 MisterX
A bit contradiction here between "load time of a page becomes academic" and "minimal graphics".

I think it's a matter of elegancy to keep the contents of a page as small as possible, with of course a smooth and clear navigation.
So I still search for the smallest PNG-image if possible when uploading to a page. Not only by compression, but
by choosing the less number of used colors possible without decreasing the quality of the information.
PNG has a much broader range in this than JPG.
It's just silly to have a picture, only black and white, as a compressed file with a 16 million colors resolution.

MisterX · April 26, 2006, 00:30:53

Quote from: "Sam_Zen"2 MisterX
A bit contradiction here between "load time of a page becomes academic" and "minimal graphics".

You are correct - my wording was incorrect. :oops:

Matt Hartman · April 26, 2006, 04:54:43

QuoteI think it's a matter of elegancy to keep the contents of a page as small as possible, with of course a smooth and clear navigation.

This comes with age.

And I can assure you, MisterX is nearing his days of depends.

Ole'buggar.
I miss that old coffee induced chagrin of his :wink:
(platonic ally of course)