Author Topic: Building Multi-sampled instruments  (Read 4862 times)

Offline Skaven

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Building Multi-sampled instruments
« on: November 02, 2011, 13:57:05 »
When making tonal multi-sampled instruments (not drumkits), I do it wrong. Why? Because it's less laborous that way.

If I have samples for each octave, like C2, C3, C4, C5, C6, C7 - instead of keeping them all in the same base note in the Sample menu, I Transpose them all to the same median pitch in the Samples tab, ie they all play at the same pitch on the same note.

It leads to this (transposition - sample playback rate at C3):
C2 +3 octaves - 352740 Hz
C3 +2 octave - 176370 Hz
C4 +1 octaves - 88200 Hz
C5 +0 (no change) - 44100 Hz
C6 -1 octaves - 22050 Hz
C7 -2 octaves - 11025 Hz

This way I don't need to re-type all the notes one-by-one to transpose the octaves in the Sample Map note column (which would have to be done if every sample was on a different octave), nor use the "Edit Sample Map" tool which is a bit unintuitive to use.

The problem: the playback sample rate for the C2 is pretty insane. Some programs, like the BASS MO3 encoder may get, how should I put it, upset by it. Fortunately OpenMPT doesn't limit how high a value you can enter in the sample rate field.  Is there any better way to do this?  (By "better" I mean "requiring less work, yet not causing extreme values" :) )

Feature suggestion:
- allow click-drag or shift-arrowkey-selecting a longer range of notes in the Instruments | Sample Map column
-> Right click menu command to "Map selected to Sample ##"
-> Right click menu command to "Transpose selected up/down 1 octave / semitone"
- Maybe a way to edit the sample map columns in a separate, taller window so you could see a longer range... hmm...

(if this gets +1'ed, I can post it to the Feature Requests forum)

Offline LPChip

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Re: Building Multi-sampled instruments
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2011, 14:30:42 »
I know you can directly type into the overview window on the instrument tab. True, you'll need to manually enter the samples etc, but it might work just as expected.

If you create a new instrument from a sample, it will do a default mapping. If you then go to the sample tab, you can just type in the required sample numbers. That seems to be the fastest way for me.
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Offline Saga Musix

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Re: Building Multi-sampled instruments
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2011, 15:36:50 »
Is there any better way to do this?  (By "better" I mean "requiring less work, yet not causing extreme values" :) )
I usually do it the same way, though I don't input the frequencies manually but simply adjust the "transpose" value (below the frequency input), so I don't have to remember all the base frequencies (useful if you use more than one samples per octave).

Quote
- allow click-drag or shift-arrowkey-selecting a longer range of notes in the Instruments | Sample Map column
This is partially possible in another way in the OpenMPT 1.20 testing versions. If you use the "Edit Sample Map" menu entry on the note map, you can simply drag over the on-screen keyboard to assign a range of notes to a given sample.
However it would indeed be nice to be able to select note ranges in the note map at once...
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Offline Skaven

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Re: Building Multi-sampled instruments
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2011, 16:09:03 »
Quote from: LPChip
That seems to be the fastest way for me.

Yes, it's currently the fastest way. So if you have two samples (number 03 and 04) and you want to map 04 to the upper half of the keyboard, you'll have to either type 04↓04↓04↓04↓04↓04↓04↓04↓04↓... into the Sample Map column, or open Edit Sample Map tool, and click through all the keys. Was just going along the line of thought  that some kind of a group select/edit functionality could be handy. :)

though I don't input the frequencies manually but simply adjust the "transpose" value (below the frequency input)
Yeah, me too.. except that my transpositions have required me to go outside the range the Transpose command allows.

Quote from: Jojo
If you use the "Edit Sample Map" menu entry on the note map, you can simply drag over the on-screen keyboard to assign a range of notes to a given sample.

Oh, dragging works there? OK, that's already a lot handier than clicking one by one.

Would Be Cool If:
- The keyboard window was resizable and scrollable, instead of switching between octaves
- The not currently selected (but mapped) samples would be displayed as faded spheres, so you don't have to switch between samples to see which are mapped where
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 16:33:28 by Skaven »

Offline Saga Musix

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Re: Building Multi-sampled instruments
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2011, 20:47:19 »
There are certainly many sensible improvements that could be made... I'll think about some. :)
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Offline Skaven

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Re: Building Multi-sampled instruments
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2011, 06:59:32 »
Thank you, sir. Your diligent work on OpenMPT is much appreciated. :)

BTW, speaking of multis and .itis, I tried saving a two-sample .iti from one song and loading it into another. What happened was that first sample was loaded over anoher sample in slot #10 replacing it, and the second sample was loaded into a free sample slot. This didn't seem quite like the way it should work.

How does OpenMPT handle multi-sample .ITIs on load?

Offline Saga Musix

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Re: Building Multi-sampled instruments
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2011, 17:35:05 »
When loading an ITI into an instrument slot which already has some samples assigned, they are first deleted (if no other instrument references those samples, of course). The new samples are then placed in some free sample slots, so if the previous instrument had just one sample assigned, this particular sample is replaced by the new sample, and another free sample slot is used for the other sample.
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