Which browser do you use for surfing?

[Saga Musix]

Sorry, but it simply true that Google loves to collect any data from every human being. This is not paranoia, it's their business - or how do you think they manage to survive in the business world with so many free programs and websites?
I agree that it's paranoia if people complain that google is scanning wireless networks while driving with their streetview cars through cities, because they use this data for position location if GSM signals are weak. However, it is not paranoia to be fully aware that google is collecting data and that there's a simple way to avoid this.

[Louigi Verona]

It is interesting about memory leakage. I've never experienced anything like it or else I do not know the symptoms.
On the other hand, Opera is a closed proprietary product - its code is secret and you do not know how many leaks it has. FF is stable enough for me and any problems it has are being solved rapidly.

[psishock]

how do you think they manage to survive in the business world with so many free programs and websites?

different business model than the rest. In a nutshell they based it on the ads.
Google gain founds from the companies and not from the users. They gather the users, offering free services that are mostly the best in the world, i am using many of them too. They dont care about any of your private information, like how did you shot your puppy last year or how cool you had modded your PC case, or anything similar. They gather informations about the way how you use their online services, so they can make it even better for the users (included you), so it will appear to more and more people. This way more and more companies will be interested to advertise their product with them, because of their large user base. Its a win-win business model for everyone, users will get the most professional and superb online services for free, with constant updates and fine tunings for their demand, and the advertising companies will get larger and larger potential costumer base. Google are getting large profit this way too, and will have the inspiration to continue inventing new services and keep up the good work with the old ones. And no, they aren't giving any of the gathered information to third parties (or in some cases, they make it accessible to anyone who likes to check them, like several statistic in youtube or similar services), because if they would do, it would mean disrespect to the users who trust them with it, and they would massively leave Google. They arent stupid and they are playing their cards right so far.

[Saga Musix]

Ok, apparently you don't know how advertising works. What would AdSense be worth if it only displayed Barbie or Bathroom equipment to you? You would not click any ads of course. However, they do track your google searches and similar stuff to find out what you are interested in, so they can automatically create a detailed user profile of you and rather display ads for this hot new sample collection instead. Improving their own services based on this data is a minor issue of theirs. Sorry for trying to burst your bubble, but this is simply how it works, and if you're fine with what they do, I don't mind.

[Paul Legovitch]

What's troubling me most about google is that they not only provide the best online services for free but they also control it. Blogs have been shut down, videos are removed all the time, view counters are manipulated... Every one likes and use google, it's great but they can pull the plug anytime.

[psishock]

Ok, apparently you don't know how advertising works. What would AdSense be worth if it only displayed Barbie or Bathroom equipment to you? You would not click any ads of course. However, they do track your google searches and similar stuff to find out what you are interested in, so they can automatically create a detailed user profile of you and rather display ads for this hot new sample collection instead. Improving their own services based on this data is a minor issue of theirs.

Actually im very much aware of this, and didnt said other way. Of course they would improve their ad system, their primary source of founds. My point was that they never give personal information out to third parties, and only collecting data about their services, to improve them.

Sorry for trying to burst your bubble, but this is simply how it works, and if you're fine with what they do, I don't mind.

And why would anybody not be fine with this? I mean sure, everyone is much more pleased to see Barbie, Bathroom, Viagra, Denis enlarger or related ads all over the free pages they browse right?. To be honest, if we're talking about choice (of having awesome free sites and awesome free online services, with ads, to support their existence), i would like to see stuff that i care about, and would maybe actually buy, and im sure every sane person thinks the same way, rather than having totally unrelated crap all over my face. Yet again win-win situation, the user is happy to actually have related and interesting ads, and the companies are happy, coz they have more potential costumers.

With one of the new services, they can even personalize the search hits for every single user who has google account, so the more you search for similar stuff and make a certain choices of sites, the search results will more and more change, to suit your needs better (which you can turn off again if you chose that way). I am using it of course, much more accurate hits for my terms, based on my personal logic, and can find that im looking for much faster.

Of course, you can always chose to stay away totally from the ads, and have every significant site, online services user supported by monthly subscriptions from your personal pocket or similar models, but thank you, i will stay with Google's free business model. What they do is much more profitable and providential for everyone, no matter that you are the service user, or the investing company.

What's troubling me most about google is that they not only provide the best online services for free but they also control it. Blogs have been shut down, videos are removed all the time, view counters are manipulated... Every one likes and use google, it's great but they can pull the plug anytime.

They can of course. But its their best interest to continue pleasing everyone as long as they can, because its a constant base of founds for them. They based their entire business around this. So they definitely dont have any sane reasons to kill themselves, and if they would go insane at one point and do, you can just use any other service again, or build your own.

But with this logic any other companies could go insane at any point, microsoft could stop supporting and selling windows, blocking almost the entire IT infrastructure,  linux developers could go closed source and sell their OS, etc etc. But as i've said, Google based their entire business model of doing what they do, and as far as i can see they are very sane people, so they should be staying with us for quite some time.

[Waxhead]

I use SeaMonkey (2.0) for all my tasks!

I was surprised to see the firefox/seamonkey since even if they share a lot of the code SeaMonkey is a quite a bit different from Firefox! SeaMonkey is imho a more competent browser (standalone) in addition to all the tools from the suite.

anywa... I also use IE at work mainly because stupid programmers mostly use frameworks for windows and rely on non-standard things. e.g. they don't care about writing something that works on standard browsers as long as it works in ie... and not they are going for a sliverlight as well... bah - horribe even if it fixes a few issues. Basing things on plugins are never a good idea - it's better to improve the web standards!

[psishock]

SeaMonkey is imho a more competent browser

That can be true. Actually ff isnt trying to be a "complete" all around solution at all, but giving the generic basics that one would need, and letting him build the rest on his own (like a custom build pc). Endless possibilities for customization, what is making it so enjoyable for the users, they will build their own complete browser.

it's better to improve the web standards!

well yea...but when you have shitty ones and everyone is pushing their own "standards", we hafta use embracing "third party standards" like flash, that looks and works the same on every cross platform. :/

[Saga Musix]

we hafta use embracing "third party standards" like flash, that looks and works the same on every cross platform. :/

...or does not work at all or not properly, like for example on 64-bit linux. on the linux terminals at university, red and blue channels are swapped for every flash file, and that does not look very pretty.

[psishock]

lol well yea, they are wurrkin on it to support more and more platforms i guess, but the idealistic idea is there. Its strange, i have no troubles with flash and ff on latest ubuntu here at home. Maybe you have some interesting linux builds on university?

[Saga Musix]

On Ubuntu x64, I don't have Flash at all, and I think the x64 vs Linux problem is a general issue.

[psishock]

oh, right, i have the x86 version installed on virtual machine. Well the whole migration thingy to x64 systems goes full of lil issues, but we will be eventually there. I think we should be able to switch completely, feel totally safe'n comfortable max after a year or two for sure. (Windows 7 was the last mixed x64/x86 release, the next versions will be only x64, and that will push everything to that direction lightning fast anyway)

[Saga Musix]

If Adobe cares about Linux at all. I bet they still don't have a proper x64 version of Flash in a year, I tell you. The stuff that's running on the servers at uni is most likely an early beta version, not available to normal x64 linux users.

[psishock]

If Adobe cares about Linux at all.

well most of the companies (and users) arent give a damn about linux anyway... so its general behavior, not Adobe exclusive.

[Saga Musix]

True. Doesn't mean that they're doing it right, though.