[simple rock] undetermined title (mp3) comments hopefully

[uncloned]

This is a very simple rock song.


http://clones.soonlabel.com/public/4collabs/daily20100215-seagull.mp3




seagull acoustic through NI guitar rig vis dean markley sound hole pickup
washburn bass through NI guitar rig
stratocastor copy through NI guitar rig
session drummer 3

[Oliwerko]

Technically I can't complain, but the melodies don't work for me, sorry. But probably it's just me not being able to accept them in the key they are in. I'm simply expecting different tones as the song plays.

Apart from that, the beat and tempo is very authentic and I like it a lot.
1:46 I expected some more stir-up with the percussions.

Anyway, I'm not that used to rock music anyway, and can have a deformed expectations in this sphere.

Nice track overall, it sounds like recorded live  :wink:

[uncloned]

thank you for the listen and comment. that it doesn't work for you is cool.

This comment:

But probably it's just me not being able to accept them in the key they are in. I'm simply expecting different tones as the song plays.

does not make a great deal of sense to me.

can you discuss your expectations?

[Oliwerko]

It's probably the fact that I'm not used to the key the song is in. Lots of "black keys" I guess. I probably expect a rock song to be simpler key-wise, say C major. It's hard explaining, it's hard even describing the 'expectations'.

[uncloned]

well...

you are going to be surprised.

The leads are in A minor - which as you know is the relative minr to C major.

So... no sharps or flats in the scale.

here is the chord progression - again no sharps or flats until or after the A major.

85 BPM

||A 9 no 3rd, G no 3rd, D 9 no 3rd| C no 3rd|
|A 9 no 3rd  F add B|
F add B,  G 6th, |A major|
||A 9 no 3rd, G no 3rd, D 9 no 3rd| C no 3rd|
|A 9 no 3rd, G no 3rd, D 9 no 3rd|

and yes the guitars were tuned just prior to each track.

[uncloned]

if anyone is interested....

here are the guitar tracks

http://clones.soonlabel.com/public/4collabs/~tis-collab.zip

all I ask is that you post the result here.

Thanks,

Chris

[Oliwerko]

Now that's a surprise for me.
I took one more listen to the track and although it didn't sound as 'detuned' to me as the first two times, still, in some passages I don't feel it's right.

I've noted down some sections that didn't sound right to me:
0:7-0:11
0:19-0:25
1:07/08
1:18
1:56/57

I repeat that it's just my impression, I'm probably not that used to guitar or whatever thing it is with my ear...

[uncloned]

Again,

I'm not following you.

I took screen shots of the v-vocal view of my lead guitar at the time stamps you specified. I presume it is the lead guitar which is what I presume is bothering you.



http://clones.soonlabel.com/public/4collabs/solo-jpgs/007-011.jpg

http://clones.soonlabel.com/public/4collabs/solo-jpgs/019-025.jpg

http://clones.soonlabel.com/public/4collabs/solo-jpgs/107-108.jpg

http://clones.soonlabel.com/public/4collabs/solo-jpgs/118.jpg

http://clones.soonlabel.com/public/4collabs/solo-jpgs/156-157.jpg

so... now you have all of the actual notes I'm playing at those points in time and all of the expression involved as well.

[Oliwerko]

I'm sorry I cannot explain this further. I really don't know the reason why the lead guitar sounds off to me. Actually, there is NO reason according to the material you supplied.

Maybe it's not the melody but the nature of the guitar sound that makes my perception behave this way. It's just a thing my ear doesn't respond well to, nothing more.

[uncloned]

Well, I agree, I must be doing something wrong if you don't like it.

[Oliwerko]

Not necessarily.
If more people would listen to it, the results would be more objective  :wink:

[uncloned]

what is your point?

to put my guitar playing on trial?

surely none of this has been constructive criticism.

[Oliwerko]

Not at all. Everything I've said here was far from any 'criticism'.
I meant that the fact that it doesn't sound right to me is my problem, not your problem.

I didn't really want to 'criticize', just to throw in my personal feeling (and I've emphasized this fact from the beginning); so there is no real 'point' or 'suggestion'.

Sorry if any of it sounded too harsh, no offense meant.

[uncloned]

I don't know if there is a language barrier here or not

you initially said my melody didn't work for you and I said that was cool.

However, you made a bad assumption as to the key the piece was in... and I told you which resulted in:

I took one more listen to the track and although it didn't sound as 'detuned' to me as the first two times, still, in some passages I don't feel it's right.

So I'm thinking you are saying my guitar is out of tune...

When I dispose of that idea you say

I really don't know the reason why the lead guitar sounds off to me... Maybe it's not the melody but the nature of the guitar sound that makes my perception behave this way

So now you are saying the timbre of my guitar is deficient because it is making your perception of this piece as being "off"

-------------------------------------

You know... no one posting here should have the expectation of universal appeal - and that is a good thing because when you do sound good to lots of people that is a great plus - its honest and not fake.

On the other hand you kept on saying it was something "strange" on my end:

key, melody, timbre

that caused your perception to be off.

I really don't know the reason why the lead guitar sounds off to me

Dude!   You just don't like my piece - nothing wrong with that but you are not adding anything positive to my  experience when you go on a witch hunt in my song. Especially when I show you time and again you are wrong in your assumptions about my  composition.


But now we are so acquainted I'd like to know

how many instruments do you play?

how long have you been playing music?

how long have you been composing music?

what is you musical experience / training?

[Oliwerko]

I think maybe I didn't make my statements clear enough in order to understand them as I meant them.

I am aware that I'm probably (actually not only probably, but positively) unable to give you any constructive criticism because I myself am a beginner in this field. But if I take a listen to a song and have something to say about it (be it constructive criticism or praise or whatever), I do so. So I said it didn't work out for me. I didn't know why though.

I kept on trying to come up with the reason, from hearing wrong notes to having an impression of detuned sound, or timbre. I did NOT mean that it's wrong. I was only trying to say that it didn't work out for ME personally, I subconsciously kept on expecting a different sound. Different in pitch, timbre, tune? I don't know.

The statement about the reasons with the lead guitar being 'off' I made - that's the same - I didn't mean that the guitar is off, it only sounds off to me.

The song is probably totally ok. My end, that is - my perception, my feeling after hearing it, my impression - that probably isn't.

how many instruments do you play?

Flute, clarinet partly, some other small woodwinds

how long have you been playing music?

12 years.

how long have you been composing music?

2 years or so

what is you musical experience / training?

Nothing apart from 7 years of theory, 12 years of flute, 2 years of clarinet, both solo and in an ensemble.

Now as you see, I have very limited (or even negligible) experience compared to yours.

To sum it up:
The fact that when I listen to a song it sounds weird to me doesn't have to mean that there's something wrong with it. That's the point I'm trying to stress here. No big deal.

Again, I'm sorry if I sounded like I was impugning the song. I was not. I was giving away MY impression, nothing more. I can't give constructive criticism to someone much more experienced than I am. At least not in this case. So I wrote what I felt. That was it. Not at all suggesting that the key, timbre or tune is wrong.