Author Topic: Mods/interesting time signature  (Read 9210 times)

Offline apple-joe

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Mods/interesting time signature
« on: February 07, 2006, 10:30:08 »
Is there anyone who's got any modules with interesting time signatures? When I say interesting, I mean anything except standard 4/4, really. 3/4, 6/8, 4/4 shuffle, 4/4 swing, and how about 12/8?

Anyone?

Time signatures bugs me a little bit. Rhythmically, I'm able to play most rhythms, but it's the theory bit which is a little confusion. HOWEVER, if I get to see a few examples in Modplgug, it'd help a lot. I've already seen one MOD with several different times signatures, and I learned from it. Still, it would be beneficial to see more examples - I understand there are several ways of doing it.

12/8 and 4/4 swing are the two most interesting time signatures right now I think. Well, 6/8 is also something. And the good old 4/4 shuffle, but I know how to identify it now, so 4/4 swing is more interesting than 4/4 shuffle.
Oh, 5/4 is also a thing on its own, but we'll talk about it later. Or?

Any examples welcome, really.

Offline Rangoon

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Mods/interesting time signature
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2006, 01:13:30 »
Quote
Oh, 5/4 is also a thing on its own, but we'll talk about it later. Or?

Any examples welcome, really.


5/4! I've got an example of a 5/4 song. This is called "The Opening Year" and it's Track 8 off the album my collective just created. It was assembled in Modplug.


The opening Year

Edit by mod:Image removed due to spam level. The image doesn't add value to the topic.

Offline Sam_Zen

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Mods/interesting time signature
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2006, 03:16:00 »
Quote from: "apple-joe"
but it's the theory bit which is a little confusion.

This confusion is caused by the western classical notation, with the /4 and /8.

If one looks at it more electronically, then this thing becomes relatively simple :
You have a sequencer with a certain number of steps. That's a pattern.
How do you divide the steps of the pattern ? A pattern can also being called a 'cycle'.
Because a cycle can be repeated, as a pattern can be set in a loop.
In this way, the rhythmic description of Indian music is much closer to the electronic one :
You have a 'Tala' (pattern) of 11 steps, divided into 3 + 3 + 3 + 2. (the sub-accents).
The pattern can be built in the same way as the default with 64 steps. Maybe filled with a 4/4 piece, but subdivided into sections of 16 steps. So a pattern can be filled with 7/8, having a length of 56 steps (rows).
This is a matter of resolution in time. The more steps in a cycle, the more precision.
So I could work with a pattern with a length of 44 steps, for a cycle of eleven, having a time-resolution of four 'clock-steps', each step of the cycle.
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Offline apple-joe

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« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2006, 13:06:49 »
Quote from: "Sam_Zen"
Quote from: "apple-joe"
but it's the theory bit which is a little confusion.

This confusion is caused by the western classical notation, with the /4 and /8.

If one looks at it more electronically, then this thing becomes relatively simple :
You have a sequencer with a certain number of steps. That's a pattern.
How do you divide the steps of the pattern ? A pattern can also being called a 'cycle'.
Because a cycle can be repeated, as a pattern can be set in a loop.
In this way, the rhythmic description of Indian music is much closer to the electronic one :
You have a 'Tala' (pattern) of 11 steps, divided into 3 + 3 + 3 + 2. (the sub-accents).
The pattern can be built in the same way as the default with 64 steps. Maybe filled with a 4/4 piece, but subdivided into sections of 16 steps. So a pattern can be filled with 7/8, having a length of 56 steps (rows).
This is a matter of resolution in time. The more steps in a cycle, the more precision.
So I could work with a pattern with a length of 44 steps, for a cycle of eleven, having a time-resolution of four 'clock-steps', each step of the cycle.


This was interesting.

The following sentence didn't make sense to me at first read: "Maybe filled with a 4/4 piece, but subdivided into sections of 16 steps."

However, it does now, after I understood you're talking about the 64 pattern example and not the 11 pattern one. (how could you subdivide into sections of 16 when there's a total of 11 steps only? Right, but as mentioned; I get it now)

It's what I do all the time really. 98 % of the time I structure the patterns with 64 rows, and divide it in 4 sections. Usually the hi hat hits on row 0, 2, 4, 6, 8 etc.

Another method I learned a while ago was that if you have a pattern length of 48 rows, and set the hi hat on 0, 3, 6, 9, 12 etc., you get a very groovy rhythm! I don't quite know why? The string thing is that I still THINK in 4/4, but the sub-divisions are slightly different as you see. In this example, I'd place a kickdrum on row 0, maybe one more kickdrum on row 6 (with lower volume perhaps?), and a snare drum on row 12. Then I would repeat the sequence from row 24. This sounds very good if you adjust the speed and tempo so that the hi hat doesn't play too fast. You'll reach a very groovy rhythm if done correctly.

Anyone who's following me?

Offline LPChip

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Mods/interesting time signature
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2006, 15:23:11 »
I've made a module using a vsti which has a quite odd timesignature too. I think it has a 8/12 timesignature, but very well can be a 3/4. Its not a waltz but has some elements in some parts of the song.
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Offline apple-joe

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« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2006, 15:28:21 »
OK. Upload?

Offline LPChip

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« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2006, 15:36:10 »
Quote from: "apple-joe"
OK. Upload?


When am at home. ok? :) But don't pin me on this.

Is it okay if i upload the mp3? I know you wanna learn from it, but im not sure if the vsti i used is commercial or not.
"Heh, maybe I should've joined the compo only because it would've meant I wouldn't have had to worry about a damn EQ or compressor for a change. " - Atlantis
"yes.. I think in this case it was wishful thinking: MPT is makng my life hard so it must be wrong" - Rewbs

Offline apple-joe

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« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2006, 00:12:34 »
I'm happy as long as I get to hear a good rhythm.

Offline Snu

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Mods/interesting time signature
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2006, 01:10:34 »
time signatures are just the beat length on the bottom (type of note, quarter notes would be a 4), and the number of beats (or 'toe taps') in a rhythmic unit (measure, or usually the length of a drum loop repeat).
most of the time in trackers we use 4 rows as the note length - since thats the default hilight.  the top number would be how many groups of 4 rows are in a rhythmic section (usually ends up being 16 rows, the second hilight).

there is more to it tho, accented (stronger) beats for instance.  the difference between 3/4 and 6/8 or 12/8 is which beats are accented.  basically, 3/4 is three distinct beats in the measure: 1-and, 2-and, 3-and,
while 6/8 is two beats divided into 3 sections: 1-and-a, 2-and-a, (12/8 would just be 4 of those instead of two).

by the way, i think you mean 12/8, lp? :p
there is no such thing as a 1/12th note...

Offline Sam_Zen

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Mods/interesting time signature
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2006, 01:28:50 »
Quote from: "apple-joe"
how could you subdivide into sections of 16 when there's a total of 11 steps only?

I'm sorry, I was not clear in that, because I talked about the Tala with 'eleven steps', but here the word 'steps' means something else as the 'steps' in a tracker, meaning the number of rows. More an 'entity' in the cycle.
So if you want a module with a count of eleven, and a subdivision of 16, you make a pattern with 16 x 11 = 176 rows.

Quote from: "apple-joe"
if you have a pattern length of 48 rows, and set the hi hat on 0, 3, 6, 9, 12 etc., you get a very groovy rhythm!

You would indeed. In this case you use a division factor of 3 in the 48 rows, so you create 16 sub-sections, each with 3 available pattern-steps. A matter of taste I suppose. I prefer a division in binary numbers, so 0, 4, 8, etc.
In that way there is a division factor of e.g. 4 in the 48 rows, so one has 12 sub-sections, each with 4 pattern-steps.

I like to emphasize that I normally consider a complete pattern as a 'cycle'. Because that's an entity that can be set in a loop, or duplicated in the pattern-order. Where (row) step zero is the 'One', as in funk or raga's.
An old example ('94) of this is the 4 Ch Mod East 3 (although it is not in an odd rhythm).
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Offline apple-joe

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« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2006, 14:00:49 »
Downloading.

Offline cdnalsi

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Mods/interesting time signature
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2006, 19:41:55 »
Well this is a short recording of mine. You could take it as 5/4 but it's actually 10/8 because of the bassline (3-2-2-3). The interesting thing is soloing while keeping the bassline with the left hand, and making all sorts of accents, and still returning to that 10/8 or 5/4 as you wish to take it.

http://cdn.untergrund.net/music/cdn_perpetuum_mobile_ovc.mp3

Offline Sam_Zen

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« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2006, 02:55:47 »
2 cdnalsi
A very nice piece I must say. And your "5/4 but it's actually 10/8" exactly proves my point. It's a matter of division into the elements. One could make something basically in 5/4, while the actual sequence could be described as 40/32.
I also checked the funk-section of your site with 'Friday'. Very nice too, although i.m.o. a bit too neat in harmonics all the time, no tension in that aspect.
Are these pieces tracker-based ?
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Offline apple-joe

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« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2006, 10:29:13 »
Any of you who's got - or may provide/create - a mod in 12/8? Yesterday I understood how to create 5/4 and 7/8 rhythm tracks in modplug. I'm eager on broadening my horizon. FINALLY, I am abuot to grasp the idea of time signatures connected with modplug.

Offline cdnalsi

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« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2006, 14:12:00 »
@Sam_Zen:

Thanks but actually those tracks are sequenced.  8)