Author Topic: On EASILY synchronizing WAV samples to OMPT tempo/MIDI Clock  (Read 16880 times)

Offline AmericanDiamond

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I'm thinking this topic has been covered before in the several years of this forum's existence, but I've searched and have not found this specific topic discussed.

I'm already familiar with the WAV sync feature and with the development of OMPT's handling decimal BPM.  However, in the time being, with full WAV samples that I use in OMPT that do not have a perfectly whole BPM, how do I easily syncronize it to the built-in tempo without using a multitude of S61, SDx and Txx commands?

I have done the above many times only to come out with imperfect sync most of the time.  I want to sync as perfectly as possible so that I may add VST effects seamlessly (internally with OMPT and with other programs that host VSTs) and play VSTis on top of the WAV file.  The built-in sync feature in the Instrument tab leaves too much room for deviation on any BPM set.

Is there a simpler, more accurate and easier way to do it in OMPT?  Is there a (freeware) external program or VST that does this with greater precision and accuracy?  This would cut down on production time significantly.

Offline Louigi Verona

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On EASILY synchronizing WAV samples to OMPT tempo/MIDI Clock
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2009, 07:25:41 »
Unfortunately it would be difficult anywhere. With DAWs like FLStudio synchronization can be a bit easier because you can actually see the waveform - it is visual - and if necessary, move it a bit. With MPT you do not have any visual aids.

However, even in FLStudio or whatever other DAW you would have sync problems with long wavs - eventually it'll go out of phase at least a little. Automatic sync is something I know to be available in dj software. Take Traktor studio for instance. But it requires preparation - that is, beat grids. And I haven't ever heard of anything like that being in DAWs, let alone OMPT which is best for handling samples rather than mixing and syncing wav files.

What I would suggest is to use shorter wave files. I do not know why you would want to use wave files and what are their typical lengths, but if you are using like a 3 minute wave file - you can be 100% sure that if you do not know it's tempo - it'll go out of sync somewhere.

You can try to edit the file carefully in a sound editor first - make sure to trim it, so that there is no empty space before the wave, so that the start of the sound is right in the beginning of the file.

If, however, you are using a file the tempo of which you already know (like, a wav rendition of something you yourself made in OMPT) then there should be no sync problems at all. I very often do this in FLStudio and I have 3-7 minute wave files going perfectly in sync with whatever goes on top of it if it is the same tempo.

Offline LPChip

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On EASILY synchronizing WAV samples to OMPT tempo/MIDI Clock
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2009, 11:50:44 »
Maybe you can archieve what you want by loading OpenMPT as VSTi in another host.

I know there's a post somewhere on this forum with a download link to a VSTi version of OpenMPT. That way, you can have the host do all the syncing.
"Heh, maybe I should've joined the compo only because it would've meant I wouldn't have had to worry about a damn EQ or compressor for a change. " - Atlantis
"yes.. I think in this case it was wishful thinking: MPT is makng my life hard so it must be wrong" - Rewbs

Offline Saga Musix

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Offline AmericanDiamond

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On EASILY synchronizing WAV samples to OMPT tempo/MIDI Clock
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2009, 06:44:40 »
Thanks LV, LPChip and Jojo.  Trimming the initial silence and painstakingly placing the start and end points of each loop in the sample editor are what I do each time already.

The OMPT VSTi plugin is a step in the right direction.  But when I used it today in VSTHost, it was unbearably choppy, with and without ASIO.  This may be because I have two HDD in use (one external USB), and this PC only has USB 1.1 capability until I can upgrade that component.  I moved all my plugins to the external drive and put the OMPT VSTi .dll file there as well and, although noticeably slower in loading time than before, the previous plugins remain unchanged by the move.

From what I heard, nevertheless, through the ghastly choppiness, it really sounded like OMPT VSTi helped the WAV keep in sync with VSTHost.  Of course I have to try it with more WAV files to see (I did get a manual good sync before using this so I hope I'm not confounding the results).

Do I need to move the OMPT VSTi .dll to the internal C drive for it to be faster?  Also, the plugin uses 1.17.02.48 and not .52 and hangs when I try to close it from the File menu, forcing me to manually end the process through Ctrl-Alt-Del.

Offline Saga Musix

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On EASILY synchronizing WAV samples to OMPT tempo/MIDI Clock
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2009, 12:51:20 »
Unless you have a really low amount of RAM, hard drives are never involved in playback, so this really can't be a reason for choppy playback. I'd rather bet on a (too) small buffer or too high cpu load.
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Offline uncloned

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On EASILY synchronizing WAV samples to OMPT tempo/MIDI Clock
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2009, 17:15:21 »
thanks - this vsti version looks to be really, really interesting

I'd like to combine sonar and openmpt - this looks like the ticket.

Offline LPChip

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On EASILY synchronizing WAV samples to OMPT tempo/MIDI Clock
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2009, 22:32:22 »
Btw: I also added a link to the VSTi version on my site, and a link there is located in the software download post on this forum.
"Heh, maybe I should've joined the compo only because it would've meant I wouldn't have had to worry about a damn EQ or compressor for a change. " - Atlantis
"yes.. I think in this case it was wishful thinking: MPT is makng my life hard so it must be wrong" - Rewbs

Offline Relabsoluness

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On EASILY synchronizing WAV samples to OMPT tempo/MIDI Clock
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2009, 22:49:27 »
Quote from: "LPChip"
Btw: I also added a link to the VSTi version on my site, and a link there is located in the software download post on this forum.

I think it would be worth mentioning next to the link that the VST build is not developed, build or maintained by people involved in OpenMPT development.

Offline LPChip

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On EASILY synchronizing WAV samples to OMPT tempo/MIDI Clock
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2009, 09:15:04 »
Quote from: "Relabsoluness"
Quote from: "LPChip"
Btw: I also added a link to the VSTi version on my site, and a link there is located in the software download post on this forum.

I think it would be worth mentioning next to the link that the VST build is not developed, build or maintained by people involved in OpenMPT development.


It could be if you commit Pelya's code in the SVN. He gave a link to that too in his post. That way, we always have an up to date VSTi too.
"Heh, maybe I should've joined the compo only because it would've meant I wouldn't have had to worry about a damn EQ or compressor for a change. " - Atlantis
"yes.. I think in this case it was wishful thinking: MPT is makng my life hard so it must be wrong" - Rewbs

Offline AmericanDiamond

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On EASILY synchronizing WAV samples to OMPT tempo/MIDI Clock
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2009, 05:06:42 »
Quote from: "Jojo"
Unless you have a really low amount of RAM, hard drives are never involved in playback, so this really can't be a reason for choppy playback. I'd rather bet on a (too) small buffer or too high cpu load.


Well, Jojo, I have a total of 192 MB of RAM, and my CPU load does shoot up to 100% every time I play anything in OMPT :oops:.  Can I alter my buffer size on both the traditional audio driver and ASIO?  I don't know what to do about the CPU though (if that's the case).

Offline Saga Musix

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On EASILY synchronizing WAV samples to OMPT tempo/MIDI Clock
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2009, 11:34:34 »
Playback buffer size doesn't really change anything, it just may stress your CPU more or less, but another 4kb in your RAM won't really involve heavy ram/disk swapping. And really, 192mb of ram is quite nothing nowadays. i think even the oldest machines in my room have at least 256mb. ^^
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Offline AmericanDiamond

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On EASILY synchronizing WAV samples to OMPT tempo/MIDI Clock
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2009, 02:39:45 »
lol, you're telling me?  Several years ago I added 128 MB to bring it up from 64.  Until I can get a completely new custom PC (dream come true), this is all I have.

But back to the original concern, are those conditions (mentioned before) why the OMPT VSTi is extremely choppy (choppier than OMPT itself)?  What are some things I can do to alleviate/eliminate that?  What are some other ways I can sync WAV to the host automatically?

Offline AmericanDiamond

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Revival of Topic
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2009, 01:14:20 »
New season for this topic?

I've seen some DJ software that claim to beatmatch and sync WAV files and other types of files in them, like Mixxx, Jackson and Pacemaker Editor.  Can these programs (or others like it) be incorporated into OMPT?

Is there a temporary way (until floating-point tempos are formally addressed in OMPT) to deal with WAV files that have "decimal" tempos?  This is what may be causing all of the sync issues.

ADDED: I didn't want to reveal what types of WAV files I'm using, but I'm doing a video game music "remixing" project, particularly the Sonic the Hedgehog Genesis series (and other games), in which I sometimes add instruments on top of the WAV recordings or rearrange the WAV tracks.

Offline Saga Musix

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On EASILY synchronizing WAV samples to OMPT tempo/MIDI Clock
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2009, 06:26:23 »
And what do you mean with "incorporating" Software, please? ModPlug is not a DJ toll primarily, nor a beatmatching software.

And non-integer tempos can easily be used, for example by an alternating Txx-Scheme. For example, for a tempo of 135.5 BPM you could simply put T87 on every second row and T88 on all the others.
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