Poll

Read the post and then choose. (14 days)

yeah, I agree (see my post)
5 (55.6%)
no, I do not agree (see my post)
4 (44.4%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closed: February 02, 2006, 14:09:21

Author Topic: Discussion about a feature I'd like to add to the new site.  (Read 15030 times)

Offline cyperkid

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« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2006, 08:03:58 »
the two araising problems/arguments (including vst, file-size) are definitly PRO mp3, but apart from the open source-character and the community-feeling (about which i care most, but definitly not the majority of musicians outthere) - exaggerated: what would be the use of uploading stone-aged and un-handy modules then at all?

if this forum/scene is meant to be a platform for a certain philosophy, it's not wrong to have some little rules to keep it together (definitly not to keep it pure or crap alike)

the idea about a file-size-limitation firstly came into my mind.
the original module being less than 5 MB = give'em the module, if it's bigger = shrink it into mp3. but then i found it useless (and odd too) as it would mean that the amount of linked mp3s will be still larger than modules (as we figured out: most modules nowaday aren't less than that anymore)

don't have other ideas so far
commodore stole my childhood

Offline LPChip

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« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2006, 08:16:21 »
Perhaps we can promote the people that DO submit more modules than MP3, but still again. I'd rather not allow having more mp3's than modules because people will get too greedy and submit the mp3 out of ease.

I'm also seeing people answer with no because I know they don't use a tracker anymore, and fear they can't submit their music. Am I wrong? Be honest!!! (those who do know who they are)
"Heh, maybe I should've joined the compo only because it would've meant I wouldn't have had to worry about a damn EQ or compressor for a change. " - Atlantis
"yes.. I think in this case it was wishful thinking: MPT is makng my life hard so it must be wrong" - Rewbs

Offline speed-goddamn-focus

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« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2006, 08:37:56 »
Will MPC host submitted songs?

Offline LPChip

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« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2006, 11:23:53 »
Quote from: "speed-goddamn-focus"
Will MPC host submitted songs?


That question is not yet certain. MisterX told me he made some kind of deal to do so, but this is speculation. If he indeed did, he'll make it public. I don't know the details about this. If we indeed are going to have a system like this, there is a fair chance that the modules will have a size limitation. Eg: only songs that are smaller than 1 mb will be able to get hosted. If above, url is necessary.
"Heh, maybe I should've joined the compo only because it would've meant I wouldn't have had to worry about a damn EQ or compressor for a change. " - Atlantis
"yes.. I think in this case it was wishful thinking: MPT is makng my life hard so it must be wrong" - Rewbs

Offline speed-goddamn-focus

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« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2006, 13:25:20 »
I voted no, I don't agree. Either make it free or make it mod only is my opinion. Making it mod only would eclude those using a tracker as one tool of many, like making loops for other pieces of software. Then again, I guess there will be no limitations in the spam forum...

Offline Sam_Zen

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« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2006, 02:02:03 »
No solutions, just some thoughts.
For the provider of a server the space on the HD for the file is not a problem. It's data-traffic that matters.
If a complete song is concerned, made tracker-wise, then the module file is the original.
Even an exported wav-format mix is a derivation. So also Mp3's or Ogg's.
I think you could call talk here about : download or stream.
My objection again streaming formats : The zap-culture. Listening for 20 seconds, then search for new.
Another thing is consequences. If you upload an original module-tracker on the web, you'll have to accept that other people can replace the samples or edit the codes. (It's up to their level of civilisation to mention the source or not.)
I guess I'm an exception on this, but I have the habit of never listen to a file online, just download the piece, and listen locally to it.
So, I don't mind being confronted with all offered files in zip-format.
Besides this I like to mention, that I really dislike the habit of presenting a demo Mp3-file of a song, which is not complete or mutilated in another way. It's all or nothing I would say.
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Offline Snu

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« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2006, 02:14:29 »
Quote from: "Sam_Zen"
I guess I'm an exception on this, but I have the habit of never listen to a file online, just download the piece, and listen locally to it.

im the same, but partially because i chose to be, and partially because i have no choice... dialup -_-
tho, i do like to listen to the first 30 seconds or so to see if its actually WORTH listening to a lot of the time, so streaming is nice for that...

Offline Matt Hartman

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« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2006, 02:38:12 »
You know I have to jump in on this one.

Here's my answer : No

Here's the arrogant, non-assertive, overly aggressive  version: NO F*CKING WAY MAN!

I do agree it is a very nice gesture to release a track or two in mod source so that other may (or may not) learn from your approaches. I think we all could claim we've learned a few things from this method. And I feel it's totally a healthy and sponsored thing. And I totally encourage it.

HOWEVER, forcing people to tally up a even amount of mods vs. MP3s, is unethical, because it violates people's will to choose a path they see fit for themselves. Forget the technicals on it, it's really no different than saying Modplug.com should start collecting tax dollars from it's members. You will be taxing their views and rights to release music in the format of their choosing/liking.

Sure it's nice and loads of fun to see a song in mod, but not everyone feels that it's their moral obligation to do so, and that IS okay.

If you create an infrastructure based off of personal opinion, you are essentially being intolerant to those who do not share your views. Which will in-turn make Modplug a place of tracker snobbery. Don't think so eh? I've seen it happen before, this is old hat!

As far as I can see, Modplug is a place of free music. Not just because there's no monetary exchange, but also because there's a energy here. That energy says "free will". I think that is just awesome. Please don't flick with that.
Yeah, sure. Right. Whatever.

Offline speed-goddamn-focus

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« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2006, 10:16:35 »
Quote from: "Matt Hartman"
As far as I can see, Modplug is a place of free music. Not just because there's no monetary exchange, but also because there's a energy here. That energy says "free will". I think that is just awesome. Please don't flick with that.

Hehe, I think you're over reacting just a little bit... Anyway, to me ModPlug has never been a place of free music but a place to get modplug tracker, talk about modplug tracker and get to know other people who use modplug tracker.

Offline LPChip

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« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2006, 11:33:28 »
In the past (talking about years back) MODPlug Central was a place to get modules to learn how to track, and to submit modules so you can learn how you're doing.

Over time, less modules were submitted, and more MP3 music was. Due to this event, people moved away from MODPlug Central, and went over to places like Mod Archive. Also people who do not create music with a tracker submit their music here. This leads to confusion that people who are used to hear tracked music can find a boring song outstunning because it sound so real. Yeah duh, it was a live recording, but they don't know that.

MODPlug Central in my opinion, is a place, and also should be a place to share the music for that of what the program is made for. This way, whenever you hear a song, you can be asured, that it is a tracked song, and not a sequenced, life recorded song.
"Heh, maybe I should've joined the compo only because it would've meant I wouldn't have had to worry about a damn EQ or compressor for a change. " - Atlantis
"yes.. I think in this case it was wishful thinking: MPT is makng my life hard so it must be wrong" - Rewbs

Offline shableep

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« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2006, 11:46:03 »
i feel the focus of the modplug community is to reinforce it's self by connecting with their peers. by really getting your fingers in their music you feel connected to what they do.

if it's just an mp3, then it's just music. if it's a module, then it's everything modplug is about. tracking.  this community is about modplug. you can share an mp3 anywhere. but here, you can share a module and actually get the attention you deserve.

i say 'module only'. this isn't a 'get your free mp3s here!' site. we should leave that to those sites that have already covered that field. i know it isolates people that use VSTs. but modplug isn't about VSTs, VSTis, remastering your final mix, or what kind of limiter you used. i work with 800meg modules every day. it's almost 90% of my music, and i use VSTs and VSTis. i'm never going to be able to submit those songs. but i never intended to. when it comes to making my 800meg module, my goal is just to make quality music. when i want to submit something to modplug, i want to submit something that only trackers would appreciate. that's what motivates me to be a tracker. if you submit a module, you really get appreciated for what you did, because trackers understand each other better than any other community. this is an important thing to preserve. we gotta keep the tracking community on what tracking is really all about.

Offline LPChip

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« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2006, 11:54:58 »
My point exactly. However, I don't want to limit to modules only, as I think that's a step too far.

As we define modules, should we limit to that what MPT is capable of opening, or should we include other tracker formats like .rns?
"Heh, maybe I should've joined the compo only because it would've meant I wouldn't have had to worry about a damn EQ or compressor for a change. " - Atlantis
"yes.. I think in this case it was wishful thinking: MPT is makng my life hard so it must be wrong" - Rewbs

Offline cyperkid

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« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2006, 13:14:44 »
Quote from: "LPChip"
As we define modules, should we limit to that what MPT is capable of opening, or should we include other tracker formats like .rns?


if there would be a way to keep the right balance between all file-types (even  while some more or less are dying out) including some rns (and alike) would be fair. splitting up categories - each for one file-type and limit them on 25 pieces add-able each month.
the mp3-folder will be full within one week, then musicians can decide wether they put any alternative (or appreciated the ORIGINAL) file in or leave it :twisted:

well, don't want to be contra-productive and make a joke out of it, just came to my mind
commodore stole my childhood

Offline MisterX

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« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2006, 01:18:46 »
The new site will allow for free, unlimited hosting of your songs, regardless of the format.  (We can even host videos in WMV, AVI, MPG and Flash format, if you have made a vid for your song.)

I believe that we should focus on modules, but at the same time, allow MP3/OGG for those who wish to release their songs in those formats as well.  For technical reasons, we can't go overboard and allow every format under the sun, but the basic tracking formats (IT, XM, S3M, MOD, MT2, etc.) as well as the MP3/OGG compressed formats should suffice.

I see no value in restricting artists on the site to one format or the other.  Remember the old motto?  It's the MUSIC, stupid! ;)
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Offline Sam_Zen

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« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2006, 01:20:26 »
Quote from: "LPChip"
In the past (talking about years back) MODPlug Central was a place to get modules to learn how to track, and to submit modules so you can learn how you're doing.

Although this problem is not very relevant to me, having my own server to publish things, I still follow the same concept. I don't just blindly upload all my tracker-modules for free, because they are the original compo's.
I make a conscious choice whether or not to offer a module, for the sake of education, or making a point about some specific item as an example.
I have no objection to placing the final thing as Mp3 or Ogg. But it should be restricted to tracker-based things.
On some thread here there already has been a case of someone linking to a non-tracker mp3. I don't like that.
Another aspect here is : do you want to give the visitors the opportunity to listening streaming to songs or not ?
Because I have my doubts if most of them have the browser-capability to listen real-time to an XM-file.
So if one is really interested, one would download the tracker-module and import it locally for playback or view the codes. The same goes on for the mp3 / ogg outputs, if one presents them in a zipped format. One has to download the whole thing or not. This prevents people from 'zapping along' to the next track, because the first 20 seconds weren't exciting enough. Although from the view of compression it is nonsense.
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