Why we keep coming back to Modplug Tracker

psishock · April 23, 2009, 15:20:48

Interesting statement Sam, i must oppose it right away.

Professional musicians are using sequencers all over the word for really every type of music genres, ambient, pop, drum and bass, techno, classical, pick any as you like (i've picked up Trance because it's one of my specialties and LV said that a tracker are not sophisticated enough for building that type of music). Trackers, specially the older, less developed ones are surely more unflexible than their modern brothers or the sequencers). Sequencers are flexible enough for most needs Sam, music that we get from the world is the proof for that.

Louigi Verona · April 23, 2009, 17:42:16

I understand why you don't care about the source code. I don't do either. For non-programmers this should be unacceptable (from Renoise FAQ):

QuoteCan my personalized version of Renoise be used by others?
The license is bound to a single person, the licensee. Your personalized version of Renoise is only to be used by yourself. Sharing (eg. p2p, warez) your personalized version will violate our terms and invalidate your license, which means you are no longer registered and no longer able to login to Renoise Backstage. Keep your copy of Renoise off the internet! Check your p2p share folders.

What if my friend sees this software and says - wow, I really love it - can I have a copy? What should I tell him? "No, please go and buy it, this copy is for me"? Because this is what the end user license of any proprietary software tells you. It says - you can only use our program if you do not give it to anyone.
Now I would understand if they asked not to sell the software - this is cool. But they chose to divide people in the name of money. They also assume that all we need is software. And that we value good software above freedom and friendship.

Sam

QuoteSo, for a composer of electronic music, a tracker is much more free and versatile to work with.

Why?

Saga Musix · April 23, 2009, 17:47:24

You really start annoying me with your ideas of sharing protected works. You even mention the keyword - "Personalized Version" - It is personalized to you! Would you share your personalized wedding ring with your friends as well, just because it's so gold and shiny?

Sam_Zen · April 23, 2009, 19:24:58

Jojo, I think this is comparing apples and pears.
Protected works are protected because the makers want to be the only ones to make money with their program.
Sharing a copy with a friend is something else, in fact it could be seen as a promotion of the product.
And how would Renoise investigate that your version is also on a friends computer ?
And what is a 'personalized version of Renoise' anyway ? Is this some gimmick like 'My' computer ?
Unrealistic bluff..
Again : a friend is something else than offering it to anybody via p2p.

QuoteSo, for a composer of electronic music, a tracker is much more free and versatile to work with.
-
Why?

Because it's not designed to produce some common genres.
And versatile means the possibility for workarounds, or non-default outputs.
Many times I used OMPT not to produce a complete song, but to export selected channels into WAV for seperate tracks in the multitrack mixer.
Because I could be sure that every single track had exactly the same byte-length.

Louigi Verona · April 23, 2009, 19:28:41

Jojo: it is not my idea, it is a widely supported idea of free software. And it concerns software, not material objects. I may have started to annoy you, but you did not even bother to try to understand why do I consider this important. Maybe it is important for you too, m? Maybe it's important to all of us?
So really, there is no need to be annoyed. I strongly believe in ideas of free software and I can't help to promote and mention them each time we talk about software - because it matters a lot.
Instead of being annoyed try to really read into this philosophy - it's not so complex and if you are not Microsoft or IBM, those ideas will appeal to you, because they are good, clear ideas. They are not just someone's personal views, just like the value of friendship and community are not just someone's personal views - those are universal values understandable and dear to all people in the world.

Saga Musix · April 23, 2009, 19:45:07

As much as I love the concept of free software, as much I'm aware of the other side: That not everything can be free. Everyone has to make a living out of his work. You simply cannot get all software for free. Well, you can, but it's immoral. Imagine you're selling stuff in a shop. What would you think if people come in there and simply take everything without paying, you can't pay your bills anymore, you can't buy food anymore? If you want to make a living out of something, then do so, and you have the right to do so.

Louigi Verona · April 23, 2009, 19:53:36

QuoteAs much as I love the concept of free software, as much I'm aware of the other side: That not everything can be free.

According to this, you are not so well aware. No offence meant, Jojo, but giving software away for free is not the concept of free software - in fact, it is a pretty silly concept.
Free software (free as in free speech) is about respecting freedom and community. If you are interested, read this article:

http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/shouldbefree.html

And this, about selling free sotware:
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html

Free software is not some utopian idea of communism or whatever stereotypes about it there are - it is an ethical and economically absolutely realistic way to look at software.

Saga Musix · April 23, 2009, 20:03:37

i know enough about free software, thank you. and I'm not that hardcore that there's only one solution (namely only free software) for me.

Louigi Verona · April 23, 2009, 20:37:55

This is not a situation where you have many good solutions and you have to be flexible to be able to choose which fancies you now. If the situation endangers friendship or the spirit of community - then your only solution is to defend them. Yes, in this case you should be very firm about this or else you'll loose your freedom. This is how it happens. But according to what you wrote above, I strongly believe you are confused on the concepts to the point of loosing the point.

Yeah, and GPL is not the only free software license, so you have many solutions, yep. Within free software.

Waxhead · April 23, 2009, 21:40:54

Quote from: "maleek"So guys and gals. What are the reasons that you use MPT? Have you tried other tracker (sequencers), (like I? I've tried lots) and come back? Or do you use (O)MPT together with other programs.

The reason I use OMPT is simply that it was one of the few "system look" programs out there that did the same job as ProTracker

off course you had MED and other stuff but I like ModPlug's way of doing stuff.

Also I did write a ProTracker clone for the Amiga called AdeptTracker (can be found on aminet here http://aminet.net/search?query=AdeptTrackerV1 ). So ModPlug was basically the closest thing I could find to my own program

Also I have tried a lot of other trackers but since most (all) of them use a skinned interface I stick with OMPT

. (I am under the impression that a program should NOT skin itself - the OS should ... like MUI for Amiga if anyone remember that)!

And above all - the OMPT community is stuffed with cool people

Sam_Zen · April 23, 2009, 22:11:24

Right on, Waxhead ! Let's get back to the issue.
Interesting point of view about 'a program should NOT skin itself - the OS should ...'
On first hand, I would agree.

psishock · April 23, 2009, 22:23:09

Quotea program should NOT skin itself - the OS should ...

yet again, i have the opposite views about this. I personally dislike the OS skins/bacgrounds/3d mouses and whatsoever, so i have then all disabled. But in other hand, i like to have special "skins" for some software that offers better overview on the specific situations and/or offers better functionality, and that means different setup for different programs. So the solution should be a choice for every software, not a general "skin" that the OS dictates for every user program. That should be the most flexible for every type of user.

Sam_Zen · April 23, 2009, 23:23:52

Well you're right Psi, because the OS we're dealing with is M$ windoze. So bad news for overview and functionality..

psishock · April 23, 2009, 23:39:12

Yup

Rxn · April 23, 2009, 23:51:41

QuoteActually, before you said it, I've never heard of such a way to do things - that is, apply filters at the mixing stage.

Think about it. Multitrack is the main post-production tool in instrumental music. Modplug is analogous to writing\recording stage. This system has been developed over years for the reason of efficiency and it works.

I am a qualified sound engineer, btw.