Author Topic: A question to all automation users out there  (Read 9544 times)

Offline Nahkranoth

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A question to all automation users out there
« on: January 24, 2009, 13:07:50 »
I want to make some wobbly bassline using simple bass patch and tweaking the cutoff of the LP filter. The problem is that even when I'm using \xx to smoothen the cutoff slides it still sounds like ladder, i hope you know what I mean. So where the heck is smoothness I'm longing for?  :D
Anyone with some experience on using smooth parameter slides please explain to me how this thing works, and how to achieve really smoov as silk slides without using ridiculously long patterns and superfast tempo.
Psishock? Are you there?

Offline Saga Musix

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A question to all automation users out there
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2009, 13:15:21 »
I don't have problems with \xx regarding smoothness. Could you please provide an example that's not as smooth as you want it to be?
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Offline Relabsoluness

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A question to all automation users out there
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2009, 13:23:08 »
2Nahkranoth

Perhaps a result of low Ticks/Row value?

Offline Saga Musix

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A question to all automation users out there
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2009, 13:30:55 »
That would rather be a result of low tempo, wouldn't it? Commands become "staircasess" if you set a very low BPM rate, not if you set the ticks/row high.
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Offline Nahkranoth

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A question to all automation users out there
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2009, 14:00:57 »
Quote from: "Jojo"
I don't have problems with \xx regarding smoothness. Could you please provide an example that's not as smooth as you want it to be?

If nothing helps I will surely provide an example.

Quote from: "Relabsoluness"
Perhaps a result of low Ticks/Row value?

cough... where I can see it? I never used this thing before :oops:

Quote from: "Jojo"
That would rather be a result of low tempo, wouldn't it? Commands become "staircasess" if you set a very low BPM rate, not if you set the ticks/row high.

My BPM is 186.

Offline Saga Musix

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A question to all automation users out there
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2009, 14:28:26 »
lol... Ticks/Row is displays in the main toolbar (standard value: 6) and can be set with Axx (IT/S3M) and Fxx (XM/MOD). Basically, it describes how many actions are processed in one row.
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Offline LPChip

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A question to all automation users out there
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2009, 14:29:57 »
Make sure that you aren't leaving gaps in the rows.

The best way to accomplish a smooth transition is to select the beginning note, add a \7F (assuming you want to start from this value)

Then move to the last note where you want to place a \00.

Then select all the cells from the start position all the way to the end, right click and chose extrapolate effects. It should automatically give you a smooth transition. Since the first effect is also a \ command, it might sound weird if the first row is played. To compensate for this, change the \ to a Z.

If you have many \xx same notes, it doesn't really matter.
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Offline Nahkranoth

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A question to all automation users out there
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2009, 15:08:07 »
Quote from: "Jojo"
lol... Ticks/Row is displays in the main toolbar (standard value: 6) and can be set with Axx (IT/S3M) and Fxx (XM/MOD). Basically, it describes how many actions are processed in one row.

Ah-ha, so that's what the "Speed" is for! OK, my speed is 0x10 (16 in decimal)
Quote from: "LPChip"
Make sure that you aren't leaving gaps in the rows.

The best way to accomplish a smooth transition is to select the beginning note, add a \7F (assuming you want to start from this value)

Then move to the last note where you want to place a \00.

Then select all the cells from the start position all the way to the end, right click and chose extrapolate effects. It should automatically give you a smooth transition. Since the first effect is also a \ command, it might sound weird if the first row is played. To compensate for this, change the \ to a Z.

If you have many \xx same notes, it doesn't really matter.

That's the way I do it!

hmm, after some research it appears that if I control cutoff directly from OMPT everything is OK,
but when I use Chainer (learn cutoff to CC0, control chainer's CC0 thru automation) then I get only ladders. Darnit!

Offline le_parasite

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Re: A question to all automation users out there
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2009, 15:21:16 »
Quote from: "Nahkranoth"
I want to make some wobbly bassline using simple bass patch and tweaking the cutoff of the LP filter. The problem is that even when I'm using \xx to smoothen the cutoff slides it still sounds like ladder, i hope you know what I mean. So where the heck is smoothness I'm longing for?  :D
Anyone with some experience on using smooth parameter slides please explain to me how this thing works, and how to achieve really smoov as silk slides without using ridiculously long patterns and superfast tempo.
Psishock? Are you there?



I experienced some "click" in the audio with some automation (\xx) too, but it was due to the vst itself, did you try to change the vst?
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Offline Nahkranoth

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A question to all automation users out there
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2009, 15:57:41 »
Not that the problem is solved, but at least I have found the cause of it. If there is a solution could you people who have Chainer give me a clue? Am I doing something wrong?

Offline psishock

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« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2009, 16:56:28 »
I'm not sure how clear is this to most people, but bare in mind that while the Zxx command gives you instant transitions when the tick hits the row, the \xx begin the transition in the given row, and finishes it only in the next one.
It works somehow like this:



So, basically if you want to finish the smooth transition (lets assume) in the 16th row, you need to have your last \xx command in the 15th row, and when the tick hits the next one, it will be exactly at your desired level.

The effect should be called "linear transition" rather than smooth, to avoid confusions. =)

Nahkranoth, Chainer shouldn't "produce" clicks if the naked vsti isn't doing it. Everything is midi data between the host program and the vst(i), the Chainer is just passing this data to the loaded vst(i), nothing is altered in the way.
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Offline Nahkranoth

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A question to all automation users out there
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2009, 17:41:59 »
Thanks, Psishock. That's a clear explanation, even a complete n00b will now get it :D
Now the only problem is that Chainer still produce ladders while naked vsti don't. Guess I should get a workaround :cry:
Thanks everyone. If I can solve this problem I will post here just for the interest.

Offline Nahkranoth

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« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2009, 18:19:39 »
w00t! I've found the cause of my headache!
So, the cutoff is linked to midi CC00 using chainer. And I automated MIDI CC00, that's where the problem was. I should've automated "Plugin param"->"Chainer VSTi"->"CC 0". Whew!
Don't know what's the difference but anyway it worked.

Offline Relabsoluness

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« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2009, 19:23:18 »
Quote from: "Jojo"
That would rather be a result of low tempo, wouldn't it?

Sorry, I was only thinking about the behaviour in modern tempo mode.

Offline Harbinger

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A question to all automation users out there
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2009, 19:28:39 »
Someone take psishock's valuable and easy-to-understand post and stick it in the wiki help.  All instructions and help should be like that! 8)