Author Topic: [uplifting trance]Signal Chain - Drifting 1.1 WIP (.mp3) upd  (Read 19048 times)

Offline g

  • Workaholic artist
  • ***
  • Posts: 280
[uplifting trance]Signal Chain - Drifting 1.1 WIP (.mp3) upd
« Reply #30 on: August 25, 2009, 10:34:27 »
Nice tune! And I really recommend mirror's edge for those who haven't played it yet.

About directional bass frequencies, I present to you my own example without too many harmonic frequencies: http://www.easy-share.com/1907481832/stereobass.ogg

1st part is a bass frequency played panned hard left and hard right but inverted on one channel. This is to demonstrate why it's not a good idea to pan bass because people might listen in mono. Also, the sound here will be very effected by the distance between left and right speaker and the listener. Please also compare listening with headphones to listening with speakers (both 2.0 and 2.1 setupd if possible).

2nd part has a single bass sound panned from left to right a couple of times.

3rd and 4th part are the same but one octave higher. This is just so you can compare to the first two, and see that frequency does matter.

Finally, no matter whether you believe bass is directional or not, there are many practical reasons always to treat it like mono.

Apologies for DC offset and some clicks. Try to disregard the clicks.

Offline Sam_Zen

  • Extreme artist
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,689
    • http://www.xs4all.nl/~samzen/
[uplifting trance]Signal Chain - Drifting 1.1 WIP (.mp3) upd
« Reply #31 on: August 26, 2009, 00:35:10 »
With the risk of further hijacking here : I understand the various reasons to handle bass freqs like that,
but I resist to take it for granted as a common assumption.
As a composer or producer I like to have the freedom to put a bass guitar only at the left channel.
And of course high freqs keep their original source position longer, due to physical law.
0.618033988

Offline uncloned

  • Extreme artist
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,752
    • http://www.chrisvaisvil.com
  • Operating System: Sam Zen - RIP
[uplifting trance]Signal Chain - Drifting 1.1 WIP (.mp3) upd
« Reply #32 on: August 26, 2009, 00:42:22 »
I personally take a clue from George Martin and the Beatles. In the 60's stereo was actually used to present an image. Not so true anymore.

It was common for George to isolate an instrument or voice in a channel.

Offline Sam_Zen

  • Extreme artist
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,689
    • http://www.xs4all.nl/~samzen/
[uplifting trance]Signal Chain - Drifting 1.1 WIP (.mp3) upd
« Reply #33 on: August 26, 2009, 01:44:06 »
Well, I obviously am stuck in the sixties, because I still like to produce stereo as an image.
Even with moving sound-objects. Which were banned by the purists first, because it was not realistic..

George indeed used isolated sources in a channel, but this was also due to the restrictions of working with a 4 channel taperecorder. 'Rubber Soul' is a good example of this technique.

I don't have the album anymore but I found an original of "Nowhere man" at Tudou :
http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/R2_JE2T6VAs/

Roughly spoken it could have gone like :
- record 4 channels.
- mix 3 and 4 with 1 and 2, to have room for another 3 and 4 recording while 1 and 2 are playing.
- mix again, until the last recording on 3 and 4 (in this case obviously the vocals)
- to get the final stereo, mix 1 and 2 into Left, and 3 and 4 into Right.
0.618033988

Offline Zaphoid

  • Inspired artist
  • **
  • Posts: 77
TISMODPLUG MIX
« Reply #34 on: August 26, 2009, 03:03:14 »
Check out the mix with Titanium and Drifting in the mix.  I put 2 of my own in there as well.  The rest are from TIS.


http://zaphoid-music.blogspot.com/2009/08/tismodplug-mix.html

Offline g

  • Workaholic artist
  • ***
  • Posts: 280
[uplifting trance]Signal Chain - Drifting 1.1 WIP (.mp3) upd
« Reply #35 on: August 26, 2009, 09:09:21 »
Quote from: "Sam_Zen"
And of course high freqs keep their original source position longer, due to physical law.

I don't quite understand "keep their original source position"?

Quote from: "uncloned"
I personally take a clue from George Martin and the Beatles. In the 60's stereo was actually used to present an image. Not so true anymore.

Besides what Sam said, stereo was a new thing and new things (in music) are almost always over-used.

Offline Saga Musix

  • OpenMPT Developers
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,333
  • aka Jojo
    • Download music, samples, VST plugins: Saga Musix Website
  • Operating System: Windows 10 x64
[uplifting trance]Signal Chain - Drifting 1.1 WIP (.mp3) upd
« Reply #36 on: August 26, 2009, 10:53:14 »
Quote from: "Sam_Zen"
As a composer or producer I like to have the freedom to put a bass guitar only at the left channel.

You are right about that, and nobody forbids you to do that. However, you cannot deny that some common practices _do_ make sense. If you want to do "olskool mixing" with the bass guitar only on the left, that's still ok, as it's not as severe as if you put a bass sample on the left, another on the left and then one in the middle. You have bass every where, and that's what makes a mix muddy in many cases.

Quote
1st part is a bass frequency played panned hard left and hard right but inverted on one channel.

You can achive that with the S91 command in IT files for example, it's called fake surround. And please never, ever use it on bass or drums - for echos, yes, but not for the main drums or bass. It just... hurts.
» No support, bug reports, feature requests via private messages - they will not be answered. Use the forums and the issue tracker so that everyone can benefit from your post.

Offline g

  • Workaholic artist
  • ***
  • Posts: 280
[uplifting trance]Signal Chain - Drifting 1.1 WIP (.mp3) upd
« Reply #37 on: August 26, 2009, 11:16:29 »
Quote from: "Jojo"
You can achive that with the S91 command in IT files for example, it's called fake surround. And please never, ever use it on bass or drums - for echos, yes, but not for the main drums or bass. It just... hurts.

Actually that's how the surround channel in prologic is encoded, so it's only "fake" if you listen to it on a normal stereo system. The whole point of the example is however that panning bass can easily cause unpredictable effects, i.e. you can't predict how it will sound on other systems. And phase errors are more pronounced the lower the frequency, trying to correct it with panning will only solve it on your current setup. Anyway, I'm really sorry for digressing, perhaps a mod can move this discussion to a new thread?

Offline Saga Musix

  • OpenMPT Developers
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,333
  • aka Jojo
    • Download music, samples, VST plugins: Saga Musix Website
  • Operating System: Windows 10 x64
[uplifting trance]Signal Chain - Drifting 1.1 WIP (.mp3) upd
« Reply #38 on: August 26, 2009, 11:18:55 »
Quote
Actually that's how the surround channel in prologic is encoded, so it's only "fake" if you listen to it on a normal stereo system

Yes I know, but I assume that most of us here listen to this on stereo equipment, so it will of course not result in real surround sound.
» No support, bug reports, feature requests via private messages - they will not be answered. Use the forums and the issue tracker so that everyone can benefit from your post.

Offline g

  • Workaholic artist
  • ***
  • Posts: 280
[uplifting trance]Signal Chain - Drifting 1.1 WIP (.mp3) upd
« Reply #39 on: August 26, 2009, 12:17:24 »
Quote from: "Jojo"
Quote
Actually that's how the surround channel in prologic is encoded, so it's only "fake" if you listen to it on a normal stereo system

Yes I know, but I assume that most of us here listen to this on stereo equipment, so it will of course not result in real surround sound.

Naturally, just trying to give some background.

Offline uncloned

  • Extreme artist
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,752
    • http://www.chrisvaisvil.com
  • Operating System: Sam Zen - RIP
[uplifting trance]Signal Chain - Drifting 1.1 WIP (.mp3) upd
« Reply #40 on: August 26, 2009, 13:02:50 »
Quote from: "g"


Quote from: "uncloned"
I personally take a clue from George Martin and the Beatles. In the 60's stereo was actually used to present an image. Not so true anymore.

Besides what Sam said, stereo was a new thing and new things (in music) are almost always over-used.



are you saying mono is better?

Offline g

  • Workaholic artist
  • ***
  • Posts: 280
[uplifting trance]Signal Chain - Drifting 1.1 WIP (.mp3) upd
« Reply #41 on: August 26, 2009, 14:29:06 »
Quote from: "uncloned"
are you saying mono is better?

Hehe, no. I'm saying stereo was overdone in the 60's with instruments panned hard in imbalanced ways, resulting in a (tom) very artificial and unnatural sound.

An example of what I consider to be good use of stereo is the Radiohead song Nude (produced by Nigel Godrich). Much more pleasant to listen to in stereo than something like Lucy in the sky with diamonds (which is an AWESOME song... in mono!).

Offline uncloned

  • Extreme artist
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,752
    • http://www.chrisvaisvil.com
  • Operating System: Sam Zen - RIP
[uplifting trance]Signal Chain - Drifting 1.1 WIP (.mp3) upd
« Reply #42 on: August 26, 2009, 14:35:28 »
you know though....

if you see a real band in like a club or bar venue

Instruments ARE panned hard left and right. And in between.

Now for that disembodied tom - that is different.

Psy - is this off topic series of posts ok with you?

Offline g

  • Workaholic artist
  • ***
  • Posts: 280
[uplifting trance]Signal Chain - Drifting 1.1 WIP (.mp3) upd
« Reply #43 on: August 26, 2009, 15:07:35 »
Quote from: "uncloned"
you know though....

if you see a real band in like a club or bar venue

Instruments ARE panned hard left and right. And in between.


I would say exclusively in between, unless in the actual band playing. If the band is using a PA then they have sound guys checking the sound, something you rarely get with a recording.

Offline uncloned

  • Extreme artist
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,752
    • http://www.chrisvaisvil.com
  • Operating System: Sam Zen - RIP
[uplifting trance]Signal Chain - Drifting 1.1 WIP (.mp3) upd
« Reply #44 on: August 26, 2009, 15:10:35 »
Quote from: "g"
Quote from: "uncloned"
you know though....

if you see a real band in like a club or bar venue

Instruments ARE panned hard left and right. And in between.


I would say exclusively in between, unless in the actual band playing. If the band is using a PA then they have sound guys checking the sound, something you rarely get with a recording.



That has not been my experience.  To run through a PA that is that loud to "cover' a band one is at a fairly big venue. And.... PA's do come in stereo too.