Poll

Should we continue to support the outdated version of Modplug Tracker (2003)?

Yes please. (see post)
8 (44.4%)
Nah, am using newest anyway. (see post)
10 (55.6%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: October 11, 2005, 11:13:23

Author Topic: Support for outdated version MPT?  (Read 21430 times)

Offline Trumgottist

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Support for outdated version MPT?
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2005, 21:23:47 »
I have not updated beacuse it's still labeled RC (planned to try an update when it was "really" released). Are you saying that there is no reason to hang on to the old version?

Offline Squirrel Havoc

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Support for outdated version MPT?
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2005, 23:02:41 »
I think we shouldnt support the old version, because if they have a problem with the old version, everyone's answer would be "upgrade to RC2"
Anyone can do anything if they have nothing else to do
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Offline nobuyuki

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Support for outdated version MPT?
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2005, 01:30:51 »
Hello, I registered to tell people that I definately want support for the old version until the new version supports ALL of the same kinds of features and behavior (save for bugs) to expect from the old version.  Several issues with the new MPT really get on my nerves when I'm trying to work with it, and it makes me resort back to the old version when I'm doing anything "serious" because I don't want these distractions to hinder my inspiration.

For example, OpenMPT has remapped a bunch of keys from the old version by default which were more than a little annoying for me to put back into place that approximates it.  Despite that, some features still just don't "work the same" in the new version.  Stuff like this:

Note Off and Note Cut events place an instrument number beside them (argh!).

When a note is deleted, its instrument number stays behind.  This may be useful in very rare instances when note "popping" is useful, but unfortunately different playback engines (xmplay for example!) ignore this as a "pop" in formats like IT!  

Default keys once again were mapped all weird and stuff.  If I remember right, I had to remap pgUp/pgDn to do a 4 note skip again.  I think the default was set at a 2 note skip.


Now this may all seem nitpicky and stuff, but I was all ready to dive into OpenMPT until this sort of happened, and combined with the (as of yet) still developing support for VST's  (I can't adjust note volume in patterns, effects support is weird and has a completely different process between samples and VST's, and the way they're mapped isn't quite intuitive yet), I've had to resort to two copies of MPT, one for VST music experiments, and one for all the traditional stuff.  Dropping support for the old version should only occur after guys like me no longer HAVE to keep an older version around just to get stuff done the way they like it.

This may happen upon some grandiose "stable" 1.0 type release maybe?  :3


Oh and P.S.  I LOVE YOU GUYS for even TRYING to add VST support to MPT!  Ever since development on the old version froze, this was my most wanted feature ever.  I can't stand any other music programs!  MPT ALL THE WAY

Anonymous

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Support for outdated version MPT?
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2005, 02:08:45 »
Quote from: "nobuyuki"
Note Off and Note Cut events place an instrument number beside them (argh!).


In the keyboard setup (patern editor - note column), just map Note Off (don't remember instrument) and Note Cut (don't remember instrument) to your keys of choice instead of the OpenMPT style way of doing things.

Quote
When a note is deleted, its instrument number stays behind.  This may be useful in very rare instances when note "popping" is useful, but unfortunately different playback engines (xmplay for example!) ignore this as a "pop" in formats like IT!  


This is another keyboard setup issue, just map delete to "Clear field (IT Style) instead of the normal "clear field" (Pattern Editor - General)

Quote
Default keys once again were mapped all weird and stuff.  If I remember right, I had to remap pgUp/pgDn to do a 4 note skip again.  I think the default was set at a 2 note skip.


You can choose to map page up/down to either use jump by measure or beat, (you set measure/beat in the song properties) or navigate up/down by spacing (which you set in the pattern editor).

I'm sure you'll find that the new pattern editor features (such as visualize effect, mix paste, grow/shrink selection, improved undo and some which escapes me at the moment as well as the incredibly flexible keyboard setup will make your tracking experience even more efficient than the old MPT, even when you don't use plugins.

It's 4 am here now so I might as well apologize for any broken words/grammar.

Offline rewbs

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Support for outdated version MPT?
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2005, 07:43:39 »
Thanks Guest. :)
nobuyuki, as pointed out above, most of your worries are just configuration issues. One extra tip is that you can make the highlights (and the jump by... commands) adhere to a fixed number of rows for all tracks rather than the track's own time sig properties by explicitly specifying the pattern highlight intervals in the Colour settings dialog.


Quote
effects support is weird and has a completely different process between samples and VST's, and the way they're mapped isn't quite intuitive yet

I think I'm aware of the issues you are aluding to, but could you be more specific so I can confirm I have them covered (at least mentally)? Bear in mind that not all pattern effects will ever work exactly as with samples for several reasons, for example we cannot split simultaneous notes from the output of a polyphonic VSTi.

Offline goor00

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Support for outdated version MPT?
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2005, 09:10:10 »
I must admit that I've used MPT and OMPT separatly for a looooong time (until beginning of this year actually). This was mainly due to OMPT's instability with some VST's I'm regularly using... not to mention the time it took me to move from pure "sample tracking" to VSTI usage (hard to teach new tricks to an old dog  :oops: )...

I know of alot of people still using the original MPT. Mainly because it's a bit less complicated to work with (e.g. there are less options and features to care about). But since RC2, most of them are beginning to slowly migrate to OMPT. I think that most people are scared to move on to OMPT because of a lack of documentation for the new features or modifications which are appearing with each new build. That's clearly not the case with MPT which is fairly well documented :)

Offering both versions would be probably a good idea. MPT is still one (if not THE) best soundtrackers to get started and I think newcomers might be less scared to start working with MPT, knowing that they'll be able to move to the more advanced version whenever they feel ready to.

My two cents ;)

Offline Snu

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Support for outdated version MPT?
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2005, 19:18:04 »
Quote from: "goor00"
Offering both versions would be probably a good idea. MPT is still one (if not THE) best soundtrackers to get started and I think newcomers might be less scared to start working with MPT, knowing that they'll be able to move to the more advanced version whenever they feel ready to.

an interesting idea... sortof a mpt lite.
this is something im afraid of, mpt getting so complex that the learning curve ends up being like buzz...
two versions would be a way to combat this, as long as we make this theory well known on the download page so people can know what they are getting in to.

Distorter

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Support for outdated version MPT?
« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2005, 10:43:41 »
In my opinion keeping original mpt is valid as long as full documentation for Ompt is ready. As we can see here moving to the newer versions of mpt is time to time confusing even for a longtime users of the original version. Now imagine what happens when complete newbes see the ompt. It is quite scaring for them. For us ? trackers? addicts ? trackers are intuitive but for ?frootytootie loops? generation? for sure not (ok, that?s just my opinion :-)). Without proper documentation they are more likely to resign from using it than to sit and learn everything by themselves. Old mpt is easy and well documented so it?s easier to start with.
So for me the good manual should be a priority right now (of course besides the development of the software). That?s just my point of view.

Best,
D.

R

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Old version
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2005, 05:57:12 »
I use the old version. I havent been here in a while (years), and this site has changed dramatically since then. I came looking for plugins/updates/music, but, I guess that isnt here anymore. I use the old version because it does everything I want it to, and I never have seen any bugs.

I think you should keep the old files up for sure. Even if you say that there will be limited support.

I will say I am glad that development is being done on this program. I have always like these formats because of their effeciency and size.

Offline Sam_Zen

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Support for outdated version MPT?
« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2005, 01:34:03 »
The old versions are already available at the read-only download section of this forum.
From a historical point of view they indeed should be there anyway, I think. Calling 1.16 a 'Lite' version is a nice concept. I don't use Vst's, so I have no opinion about it, but besides that, RC2 of OMPT has offered
me many great improvements. But, of course, is therefore a bit more complicated than 1.16.

But so far this is only the Editor-issue. There is also the Player . . .
Very handy. No install needed. A quick playback, if assigned, with some unique options.
There is also the browser-plugin for a streaming playback (still working with Firefox on XP).
0.618033988

Offline Dj Cruk CHIKIN

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Support for outdated version MPT?
« Reply #25 on: October 27, 2005, 01:58:44 »
hmmmmm so where HAS olivier gone to?
Eat... Its good for you.

Offline Sam_Zen

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Support for outdated version MPT?
« Reply #26 on: October 28, 2005, 00:12:36 »
As far as I know, his site is here
0.618033988

Offline gyromatical

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Support for outdated version MPT?
« Reply #27 on: October 30, 2005, 06:33:15 »
Yes please support it, or at least keep it available for download. I didn't move to OpenMPT yet because I'm really comfortable with the old keyboard layout and the OMPT keyboard layout is awkward in comparison, and the interface has a different feel to it. The second most important issue is that it doesn't run as well on my PC, which is an older machine. Speaking of older versions, is there a place to get v1.0, or v1.00a? My cousin and I started using MPT in 1997, and it would be interesting to see again.  8)

Offline Sam_Zen

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Support for outdated version MPT?
« Reply #28 on: November 02, 2005, 02:02:10 »
2gyromatical
I have v1.06, but unfortunately I'm in the middle of a house-change, so the cdrom is somewhere in a carton box at the moment. But I will keep your request in mind. So I will publish it later.

Relax about this topic. Apart of the decision of MPC to support the old version or not, I will, as I did before finding the pre-crash MPC-forum, have available the last ver of MPT, plus player and plugin here
0.618033988

Guest

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Support for outdated version MPT?
« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2005, 06:46:30 »
I know it's been more than a month since the last post, but I would agree with nobuyuki and others who suggest that losing some of the quirks that MPT had actually make OpenMPT feel rather counterintuitive for those who are used to it. (Spent quite a bit of time remapping the keys to some approximation of IT-style to work with my Dvorak keyboard...)

Perhaps a switch for the old MPT-style behavior and quirks (with VK_*, maybe?) and the new OpenMPT behavior, if not out-of-the-box? (Little things are rather stifling... esp. when they're not configurable, like OpenMPT clearing the instrument value when placing a note, when Main instrument is 'none'...)

Don't get me wrong, though: Like many have said, MPT really needs the update. (Runs on NT 4, after grabbing MSIMG32.DLL from online...).