Humanise using sliders

MurdersGalore · December 20, 2006, 00:34:22

I think a very valuable feature...and one I have not really seen in a tracker so far...would be a type of "humanize" function.
What I mean by this...is a function to add varying levels of imperfection to the timing in MPT to give it a more "human" or organic quality.
Although it would probably be easy to implement this into the overall tempo engine (or whatever you would call it) It would be even better if the timing imperfections could effect individual tracks seperately...and perhaps have a global control in the general window which would allow the user to tweak the degree of "humanization"
I think this would be exceptionally useful for those of us creating more organic type music such as rock and metal where multi-layered drums and whole sample guitars and such are used. It would add a great degree of realism to the end product. I thought of doing something like this myself with the source code....but I am a shitty novice programmer.

Hopefully..others will also find a need for such a function....as for me...if such a function was implemented, I would make even greater use of MPT as I already use it quite alot and recommend it to many.

Thanx for letting me ramble. Cheers.

Edit: Moved to the issue tracker: https://bugs.openmpt.org/view.php?id=853

Sam_Zen · December 20, 2006, 02:26:20

First : MPT is already set above the rest ..

This 'humanizing' is already possible in some ways. There are codes (depending on format) to delay the start of a note some ticks, or other codes to skip a tiny part of the start of the sample.
I don't think it's a good idea to imply this on the general tempo, because then all instruments are under the same influence. Unless of course if you want to make a model of an amateur-band, where the piece ends up in a faster tempo than at the start.

MurdersGalore · December 20, 2006, 03:03:17

I think you are misunderstanding something here.
First off..I am aware of the ability to set note offsets and what-not...but that is also very time consuming and tedious.
And secondly..I dont mean that it should have such an irratic tempo change (actually wasn't referring to tempo at all). What I am talking about would be more of an anti-quantising feature. Mpt is already suitable for trance and techno and other loop based music. But take a look at an acoustic drum track for instance. There are two things that can make an acoustic drum set sound "machine-like". One is the fact that a real drum never sounds exactly the same twice due to velocity and the reaction of the drum head ect ect....with multi layered sample sets this is no longer an issue. What is still an issue for tracking programs is the perfect machine-like timing. When a real drummer hits the snare...say a roll of 16th notes...each one of those hits will have a timing offset of about 50 milliseconds or so no matter how skilled the drummer is. These timing imperfections are what makes the track sound "human". This feature is already present in Vsti's such as "Jamstix" and in DAW's like cubase. However, I find all of these to be cumbersome resource hogs for my humble needs.
What I am suggesting is adding a global offset ability. Ofcourse for those people who prefer the perfect timing for loop based music can simply choose not to use it. But for those of us using bass guitar samples, multi-sampled drums ect. ect....such a feature that would add this human feel automatically would make the work flow of tracking such things much more productive. And anything in a program that would increase productivity is good...right?
even if its a feature that you wouldnt use...dont say that noone would benefit from it.

and I have also tried to recreate this random imperfection using MPT and note delays, sample offsets, ect...very tedious...and still not very realsitic.

Sam_Zen · December 20, 2006, 04:46:16

I see what you mean. A global offset is a nice suggestion. I agree about the tediousness of thing, but most of the time I don't care much. But any emulation of reality is perfect. So as soon as the suggestion works, it's fine by me.

LPChip · December 20, 2006, 08:28:19

In the instrument tab, you can set random volume using a slider, as well as for the two filters. With these, you already get somewhat of a human feel to it.

In the past I've requested to Rewbs if it'd be possible to do the same for a notedelay, so you can set how much it randomly shifts a note to get an even more human feel. Rewbs and I have discussed this a bit, and he did liked the idea. He also told me that it was a deep change in the program and therefor it has been put on the to-do list. This change probably will be easier when we have a new modular fileformat.

MurdersGalore · December 20, 2006, 08:42:39

Thanx for hearing me out and considering this. I know alot of other people who use mpt that would love such a feature. Also, the idea of MPT having a native file format is nice indeed.

rewbs · December 20, 2006, 11:16:13

When I need this I do the following:
1. Set tempo mode to "modern" to allow high number of ticks per row at reasonable scroll speeds.
2. Set 16 ticks per row and whatever BPM I want.
3. Use SDx (note delay) with x between 0 and F on the notes I want to humanize. This will add delays to a resolution of 1/16th of a row.
The above combined with what LP suggested leads to pretty good results. On some samples (e.g. cymbals), throwing in a few Oxx with low xx to chop of a small part of the beginning of the sample can work wonders too.

Of course the downsides are that this uses up your effect column and you have to enter the values manually (although your can also "scribble" them in visually with the graphical parameter editor, which is quite fun). I agree adding an instrument setting to do this in samples could be cool.

MurdersGalore · December 20, 2006, 17:04:38

I had just finished experimenting with a similar method using ezdrummer vsti. I was getting a good effect.....but man was it ever time consuming.

Quote
(although your can also "scribble" them in visually with the graphical parameter editor, which is quite fun)

I must have missed something here....explain this method a bit more please?

Matt Hartman · January 04, 2007, 16:37:33

The process is very time consuming. In fact, 60% of my time tracking is in the tedious details of getting the track to an "organic" state.

I've gotten exceptional results with the order of the tracker's current abilities in the latest beta build.

However, it is a time consuming process one which I too would like to see more automated so I could concentrate my efforts more on musical composition rather than technical. Realizing my trend to general laziness when it comes to fiddling with technology.

Seems like the goal for any technology is to find ways to make it perform in more organic like ways. MPT could benefit.