What is this chord?

[CoolDudeClem]

I'm having trouble with a certain chord

I know that C, E, G makes a major chord,
and C, D#, G is minor, but
what chord is C, F, A ?

I've heard it in a lot of tracked music, and used this chord myself, but
I don't know what it's called.

I'm trying to do something that uses this chord in Band-in-a-box to make a background track for my songs, but I cant enter it because I dont know what it's called, and I'm getting nowhere and it's really bugging me!

[bvanoudtshoorn]

Chord theory 101.

Edit: You might want to print this out and sit with it in front of a piano or keyboard, 'cos it'll make a lot more sense if you can actually see what I'm talking about.

Right. Chords aren't defined by particular notes, but by patterns in the distances between the notes. The distance between two consecutive notes is known as a "semitone" - so C to C# is one semitone, and C to D# is three semitones. These distances are known as "intervals".

Interval Names:
1 Semitone - Minor second
2 Semitones - Major second
3 Semitones - Minor third
4 Semitones - Major third
5 Semitones - Perfect Fourth
6 Semitones - Augmented Fourth / Dimished Fifth
7 Semitones - Perfect Fifth
8 Semitones - Minor Sixth
9 Semitones - Major Sixth
10 Semitones - Minor Seventh (Dominant Seventh)
11 Semitones - Major Seventh
12 Semitones - Octave

The patterns are arranged thusly:

Major chord: A major third with a minor third on top - for example, building from C, you'd go a major third up, to E, then a minor third up from there, to G. This gives C E G, a major chord.

Minor chord: A minor third with a major third on top - for example, D F A.

Diminished chord: A minor third with a minor third on top - for example, E G Bb (E G A#)

Dimished seventh: A minor third on a minor third on a minor third - for example, E G Bb Db (E G A# C#)

Augmented chord: A major third with a major third on top - for example, C E G#.

Major Seventh: A major chord with a major third on top - for example, D F# A C#.

Dominant Seventh: A major chord with a minor third on top - for example, D F# A C.

Minor Seventh: A minor chord with a minor third on top - for example, F Ab C Eb (F G# C D#).

Major Sixth: A major chord with a major second on top - for example, E G# B C#.

Suspended Fourth: A perfect fourth with a major second on top - for example, D G A.

Suspended Second: A major second with a perfect fourth on top - for example, D E A.


Inversions
First Inversion: Now, to answer your actual question. All of the patterns I told you above are for chords in "Root Position" - that is, with the note that you build from at the bottom of the chord. Imagine you're looking at a piano keyboard. Now, if you have a C Major chord, consisting of C, E, and G, you can take the C from the bottom of the chord, and put it at the top. This is known as "First Inversion". You can write it in a couple of ways - the simplest for most people is in jazz notation, as C/E. In other words, play a "C" chord with the note E on the bottom.

Second Inversion: Now, take your C chord, and move the C to the top, and then the E to above the C. So now your chord is G, C, and E. This is known as "Second Inversion", and you can write it as C/G.

Third Inversion: Some of the chords I mentioned above have more than three notes. If we follow the pattern of inversions, you get "Third Inversion". For example, Cmaj7 in third inversion is B, C, E, and G.


The Etc.
Basically, to identify a chord, you have to learn these patterns. Once you start "getting" them, it'll become easier and easier. And then you can start playing with more complex and interesting chords, like ninths, elevenths, and even thirteenths. You can play at flattening certain notes, or sharpening others, and so on.


To actually answer the question explicitly:
C E G is a C Major chord.
C Eb G (C D# G) is a C Minor chord.
C F A is an F Major chord in second inversion; it is F/C.

I hope this helps.

[LPChip]

I know that C, E, G makes a major chord,
and C, D#, G is minor, but
what chord is C, F, A ?

If you wanna read a loooooooooooooong post, go ahead and read barry's one if you haven't skipped it already

This is the short answer to your question.

C, F, A are the notes in the chord: F, A, C, which is an F minor.

F major would be F, A#, C.

A way to know this, is to substract the same amount of semitones from each note until you reach the C one with the first key, which is an F in this case. To know the first key, find a sequence where the notes are as close as possible to eachother (atleast thats the case for majors and minors).

If you look at F, A, C, then you'll see that it goes like this: F,G,A - A, B, C.

If you look at C F A then you'll see: C,D,E,F (too much)
and A C F: A,B,C - C,D,E,F (too much)

Then scaling down the F, A, C to a C chord.

F, E, D#, D, C#, C are 6 notes.
A, G#, G, F, E, D# are 6 notes
C, B, A#, A, G#, G are 6 notes.

So C, D#, G = a C minor, making FAC an F minor.

[bvanoudtshoorn]

(Um, LP - C F A == F[major]/C. C F A# == Fsus4/C || A#sus2/C)

[aGIANTpupafish]

Yep, A-C-F, F-A-C, C-F-A, whatever order you put it in is an F major chord, just the basic triad F-A-C in a different inversion.

[F]-[G sharp or A flat]-[C] would be your F minor.

p.s. nice post barry.

[CoolDudeClem]

Thanks for the help with the chords everyone, I understand now, and I'm even trying out the different inversions.

[LPChip]

(Um, LP - C F A == F[major]/C. C F A# == Fsus4/C || A#sus2/C)

Yep, A-C-F, F-A-C, C-F-A, whatever order you put it in is an F major chord, just the basic triad F-A-C in a different inversion.

[F]-[G sharp or A flat]-[C] would be your F minor.

p.s. nice post barry.

Ah, indeed. Seems that I was missing a note:

F, E, D#, D, C#, C are 6 notes.
A, G#, G, F#, F, E are 6 notes
C, B, A#, A, G#, G are 6 notes.

[Harbinger]

Keep in mind that knowing the chord is not enough. Chord progression dictates what each chord makes you feel or sometimes see. Many chord progressions have a certain level of expectation, such as Cmaj to Cmaj to Fmaj to Cmaj in many gospel songs. Classical music is classical because of its attention to chord progression (among other reasons).

Inversions, i have discovered, have a different evocation than the standard version of the chord, and each inversion speaks its own word. It's the equivalent difference of saying, "a dark and stormy night" as opposed to "a night, dark and stormy." As you hone your composition or even tracking skills, you will notice how inversions change the feel of a musical piece, depending upon where you use them in your chord progressions, even if you leave the instrumentation and the melody the same.

There is actually a set of rules when using inversions, especially six-fours. I once read then in a book written by Schoenberg (yes the composer). He said that inversions should never follow each other. So what did i do? Spiteful me, i went and composed a piano suite written ENTIRELY in first inversions!! :twisted:

[uncloned]

I would like to hear that!

Obscure that Schoenberg would pay attention to classic tonal harmony.

Though.... one would think Debussy already eradicated that barrier though massive parallelism. Theory - 20:20 hindsight.

[uncloned]

I'm having trouble with a certain chord

I know that C, E, G makes a major chord,
and C, D#, G is minor, but
what chord is C, F, A ?

The easiest way to decipher inversions is to arrange the notes to where they all stack in thirds. In your case C to F is a 4th - F to A is a 3rd. Shove the C up an octave and it makes a 3rd A to C and is now recognizable as a F major chord. Stacking the closest 3rd's will get you a long way to naming even complex jazz harmonies because the names relate to the distance from the lowest note. For instance F-A-C-Eb-G would be a 9th chord (minor - major 9th) but could be written in lots of different ways by playing with moving notes by octaves.

Inversions are largely a result of writing in "voices"  or part writing in classical music - and largely a matter of "texture"  in "popular" music.