[DUPE] Usability: Instruments / Effects routing display

[dBlues]

From usability point of view, there is a need to get a picture of all routings in one glance. E.g. a picture where each VST/VSTi/channel is displayed as a box, and arrows display the routing chain.

Rationale: It would be great help when you e.g. edit old songs or try to create new ones with complex routings. Also the problem with current situation is, that you can only route an instrument to an effect OR you can route a channel to an effect. Not both at the same time. Now you can easily get confused about which effects you can use where.

Example case of this situation here: http://forum.openmpt.org/index.php?topic=1800.0

Edit: Dupe on issue tracker: http://bugs.openmpt.org/view.php?id=701

[LPChip]

I doubt anything like this is going to be implemented, cus if we get something like this, then it will be a modular design. Currently its not possible due to how OpenMPT works.

But I'll leave the final verdict to the programmers. I just give the odds where I know them.

[älskling]

Also the problem with current situation is, that you can only route an instrument to an effect OR you can route a channel to an effect. Not both at the same time. Now you can easily get confused about which effects you can use where.

IIRC the channel to effect (or in fact channel to instrument) was the first method of VST implementation, and is mainly left in for compatibility purposes. Using both methods in the same song is not recommended (because it's confusing), something that probably should be made more clear.

I wouldn't mind a more visual way of routing, and I don't think it's impossible due to how OpenMPT works.

[LPChip]

I wouldn't mind a more visual way of routing, and I don't think it's impossible due to how OpenMPT works.

Its not impossible to change the view of the current system, but Rewbs pointed out earlier that if he wants to change the plugin, he'd rather do it right from the beginning to a modular design. IIRC he even made an attempt of changing the plugins to a more graphical representation, but for an unknown reason to me it never made the program.

[Sam_Zen]

This indeed is asking for a graphic interface about a modular system and its hierarchies. Like AudioMulch.
Quite a job, and I'm not really waiting for such feature.

[älskling]

This indeed is asking for a graphic interface about a modular system and its hierarchies. Like AudioMulch.
Quite a job, and I'm not really waiting for such feature.

A "modulr system" isn't really different than the  current system, it's just the way it's displayed that differs.

[LPChip]

This indeed is asking for a graphic interface about a modular system and its hierarchies. Like AudioMulch.
Quite a job, and I'm not really waiting for such feature.

A "modulr system" isn't really different than the  current system, it's just the way it's displayed that differs.

Yes it is. Our current system is not modular, but its one way, and quite restricted.

The graphical view would make people expect that they can link everything to eachother, but they can't.

[Sam_Zen]

There are other hierarchies in which I'm more interested in.
For example a clear overview of which volume-setting overrules what. But that's another topic.

[LPChip]

There are other hierarchies in which I'm more interested in.
For example a clear overview of which volume-setting overrules what. But that's another topic.

That actually doesn't happen.

All volumes are being multiplied and devided to form somekind of generic volume. That makes it possible to make one of the volumes set to 0 will always mute it, but setting one to full will not make it always loud.

[Sam_Zen]

Of course multiplying with a zero in it, is zero, but. as you said, which one defines the max ?
If The Global volume in the instrument tab is set to half, 32, what if a volume code in the pattern is set to max value ?

[älskling]

The graphical view would make people expect that they can link everything to eachother, but they can't.

Yes they can (with the exception of sending the output of one plug to more than one other plug, but it'll be pretty obvious).

Of course multiplying with a zero in it, is zero, but. as you said, which one defines the max ?
If The Global volume in the instrument tab is set to half, 32, what if a volume code in the pattern is set to max value ?

As LPChip said, they are multiplied. Max times half = half max. The default volume on the sample tab however is just the default volume for the sample/instrument in the pattern editor, and is changed (temporarily) when you set the volume (for the sample/instrument) in the pattern editor.

[dBlues]

I wouldn't mind a more visual way of routing, and I don't think it's impossible due to how OpenMPT works.

Its not impossible to change the view of the current system, but Rewbs pointed out earlier that if he wants to change the plugin, he'd rather do it right from the beginning to a modular design. IIRC he even made an attempt of changing the plugins to a more graphical representation, but for an unknown reason to me it never made the program.

It would probably be a bit too much hard work to make. Actually, I would be fine with a static reconstruction of the routing situation, i.e. you would still have to make adjustments the old style. This would very much reduce the amount of signal handling that needs to be done, but still provide a view to the current routing situation.

[Sam_Zen]

..is changed (temporarily) when you set the volume (for the sample/instrument) in the pattern editor.

That's what I meant with 'overruling'. Thanks, I know enough to get the situation.