[OT] question for you computer experts

Squirrel Havoc · March 12, 2006, 23:07:44

Ok, if anyone has been following my threads, you know I have a problem with distortion and awful ticking sounds all the time, and more when I burn discs, minimize windows, or bog down the CPU. I figured it was my video card or my sound card. But I just deleted a bunch of files I didn't need anymore so I can save some space, and now after reboot it works just peachy.

I notice a lot of computer novices think too many files and programs that arent running or even being accessed will hurt or slow down their computer. I always kinda giggled at that, I figured I was a computer whiz, and I never heard of anything like that, but it seems it may be true.

Any of you experts know if theres any truth to that?

List of changes since last reboot:
Installed older version of Firefox
Uninstalled a few Firefox extentions (non-audio related)
Installed 7zip
Deleted or compressed many files to save space.

Any of those known to fix problems?

Thanks!

EDIT: Oh yeah, I also installed the trial version of Paint Shop Pro X and the latest ICQ client

LPChip · March 13, 2006, 15:15:41

The issue described here, is clearly the result of low disc space.

Let me enlighten what happens and what is the result of this.

Windows uses the memory in order to remember stuff. This is obvious. What is being stored in memory, you may ask? Everything. If you start a program that is 10 mb big, then 10 mb is being stored in memory. If this program opens a 2nd file of 10 mb, then 20 mb is being stored in memory.

Example: Open up MPT (2 mb) and load 5 songs of each 10 mb. Windows will utilise the memory with 5x10=50+2=52 mb.

Aside of this, Windows itself also needs memory. XP will probably use about 100 mb of memory, if not more. (This includes the picture you have as a background, and the files for the theme etc)

If you have 256 mb RAM, then its obvious that your memory will be full very quickly. All drivers that are loaded with windows will probably already be about 256 mb RAM.

So, the more programs you have open, the more memory it requires, right?

If this is clear, then the following will be understandable also.

It will easilly occour, that you will run out of memory (in terms, you have more memory in programs than you have available in your system.)

To counteract this, windows works with a swap file. This is a file that contains a memory dump. When windows doesn't use an application, it will move it to the swap file. Due to all device drivers etc, its nearly impossible to move everything there. If you play an MP3 in the background, copy files (yes these files are also being stored in memory) they are all being tried to put in memory.

This ofcource isn't possible, so windows has to keep moving between the swap file and RAM. This action takes alot of system resources, and creates slowdowns. Windows is used to do this all the time, so things are not being recognised.

What you don't realise, is that windows has an enormous swapfile. Not just a few hunderd megabytes, but a swapfile can easilly become like 1,5 gigabyte. Windows stores useless information (cache) in this file.

Then why do you get hickups all the sudden?

When your harddrive becomes full, windows cannot make a huge swapfile anymore. The result is, that windows has to manage the memory and swapfile with what it can do. The system will become slow because it can't have the extra cache.

Usually, you should have about 10% free of a disc for the swapfile. Thats how windows determines the size of the swapfile.

If you have a C and a D disc, it might be benefitial to move the swapfile to the other partition, assuming that D is another partition and not a cd-rom drive ofcource)

rewbs · March 13, 2006, 16:07:58

QuoteWhat is being stored in memory, you may ask? Everything. If you start a program that is 10 mb big, then 10 mb is being stored in memory. If this program opens a 2nd file of 10 mb, then 20 mb is being stored in memory.

Aside from having the world's most irritating writing style, you know this is generalisation is nonsense.

Many applications read parts of a file from disk as needed... a DVD player application most likely will, for example.

QuoteUsually, you should have about 10% free of a disc for the swapfile.

I'd recommend fixing the minimum and maximum virtual memory size to the value you think is the biggest you'll need, so you don't suffer the unpredictability of swap file resizing. Swap file can be configured in my computer/properties/advanced/performance/advanced/virtual memory/change .

Any activity in your system can result in noise if your soundcard isn't well insulated and has a low Signal to Noise Ratio: http://www.borg.com/~jglatt/tutr/noise.htm .
So if you are swapping less now than you were before, this could indeed explain the drop in interference... but I'm thinking there could be something else too: did you ever get noise in situations where it's really unlikely Windows would have been swapping?

On my soundcard (Audigy Platium 1, piece of crap), some input channels more sensitive than others. I get bad interference on some from my video card (definitely not from swapping), so I always mute all inputs I'm not using. Moving the card around in the different PCI slots to find the best one helped too.

I also have a tv card, which causes a interference that goes away when I pull out the antenna (could be the problem described here: http://www.epanorama.net/documents/groundloop/home_solving.html ).

LPChip · March 13, 2006, 16:27:13

Quote from: "rewbs"
QuoteWhat is being stored in memory, you may ask? Everything. If you start a program that is 10 mb big, then 10 mb is being stored in memory. If this program opens a 2nd file of 10 mb, then 20 mb is being stored in memory.
Aside from having the world's most irritating writing style, you know this is generalisation is nonsense.
Many applications read parts of a file from disk as needed... a DVD player application most likely will, for example.

Yeah, I know, but adding that to my statement, doesn't make it more easy to understand, now does it?

The matter is complicated as it is, and I think adding more information than necessary will make it harder to understand. It was an example to explain that a program doesn't take memory just because the program is very small, but that it also can require memory, and reserve additional memory.

For instance, if I open MPT, and load in songs, then go to the taskmanager, MPT's memory usage is alot bigger than when I have no songs loaded. That memory comes from somewhere, doesn't it?

rewbs · March 13, 2006, 16:36:54

<bitchy OT>
Reading your post, the bit I quoted did not look like an example but an attempted statement of fact. This is partly due to the fact that the line that follows it begins with "Example:".
I think if you find yourself knowingly spreading incorrect information just for the sake of simplifying a complex issue, then you need to rethink your simplification.

OTOH, anyone can make mistakes or not realize they are missing some piece of knowledge...
</bitchy OT>

LPChip · March 13, 2006, 19:08:36

Rewbs, do you try to piss me off here, or do you try to win a discussion? :p

speed-goddamn-focus · March 13, 2006, 19:40:50

I think he's trying to help Squirrel Havoc. If that includes pissing you off it's probably just a bonus.

Squirrel Havoc · March 13, 2006, 19:59:49

Quote from: "rewbs"did you ever get noise in situations where it's really unlikely Windows would have been swapping?

Hmm, well theres clicking sounds all the time, like listening to a scratched CD. It's just anytime a sound plays, it gets worse, and anytime I burn a disc or minimize a window, it gets worse. I adjusted the swap file to be 2.5GB static, and uninstalled PowerDVD since installing it was the last thing I did before it screwed up again. Could it just be overheating? My powersource fan died, I don't know when, but I just realized it did while I was skimming through the BIOS settings/status.

rewbs · March 13, 2006, 20:06:10

Quote from: "Squirrel Havoc"Could it just be overheating?

Yes, overheating can cause a whole lot of strange stuff. Do you know what kind of temperatures you're at?
The next thing I'd do is get the fans working (that's probably a good thing to do anyway), then try the sound card in various PCI slots, without any other unnecessary cards attached. I had a PCI USB2.0 hub that cause horrible clicking when it was in the slot next to my soundcard. Took me a while to figure that out. If the old forum was still around I would dig up the post I made about it..

rewbs · March 13, 2006, 20:07:06

Quote from: "LPChip"Rewbs, do you try to piss me off here, or do you try to win a discussion? :p

Both, and so much more... but c'mon, you deserved it...

LPChip · March 13, 2006, 20:22:18

Quote from: "rewbs"
Quote from: "LPChip"Rewbs, do you try to piss me off here, or do you try to win a discussion? :p
Both, and so much more... but c'mon, you deserved it...

If it wasn't that Squirrel Havoc requires help, I'd be pissed of by now...

You can try running a full POST (can be configured in the bios, and usually looks like: Quick Power on Self Test: enabled -> disabled)

If you're desperate, you can try installing a second installation of windows (assuming you have the capabilities to do so)

Usually during installation, hardware failures become visible. Also on the newer installation, you can see if there's any hardware failure that can cause this. If the same happens in the new installation, its something hardware. If not, then its software.

Squirrel Havoc · March 13, 2006, 21:22:38

Quote from: "rewbs"Do you know what kind of temperatures you're at?

Yeah, but not in Celcius, I forgot those. Let's see, CPU 123* F, Ambient Temp 84* F, CPU Fan RPM 2400, Exaust fan RPM 1200, AUX fan 0 (which I believe is the powersource fan, since it's not moving anymore).

I'll try moving PCI cards around, I only have 2 installed, and I need them both, vid card (since it's not AGP) and sound card.

Thanks for the suggestions guys