[dance?] In the morning air (mp3) - Now finished

[Oliwerko]

Hello there folks!

I've been working on this one for quite a while and it turned out to be the best I've made so far, and - for I have still issues with it, I would be very grateful for any help from people that are more experienced than I am  :wink:

Anyway, the trouble is as always with my songs - it's too long. I just can't seem to find the line when it's enough to stop adding solos.
I have been trying to cut it for a few hours now, with no satisfactory result so far.

I have three versions, the 'full' is what I came up with initially.
The 'mild cut' has the second repetition of the 'chorus' cut out, along with one part in the end.
The 'solo cut' has the choruses left as in 'full', but I cut out some solo parts in the end.

Anyway, it's still pretty long. I would like any suggestions you could give about what sections to cut out from the 'full' version.

I'm clueless. You see, I really LOVE the sound of all the instruments, so I like them to have their solos. Then I want the chorus to repeat at least twice in the song - and bang!, it's 6,5 minutes, and then I just can't cut the parts out 'cause I feel the song lacks them.

Please, don't mind the distortion and unfinished transitions, as well as panning/mixing or too weak BDrum, that's all left for later, now I have to concentrate on structure.

You can get all of the three versions here:

http://www16.zippyshare.com/v/137964/file.html
http://www16.zippyshare.com/v/32513664/file.html
http://www16.zippyshare.com/v/9806819/file.html

or

http://oliwerko.ic.cz/Fjord_full.mp3
http://oliwerko.ic.cz/Fjord_full.mp3
http://oliwerko.ic.cz/Fjord_solo_cut.mp3

(sorry for crappy mirrors, I don't have anything better at hand  :cry: )

Some people told me that it's long, but dynamic enough and there's no need to cut. If that would be the case, I would be glad, but I doubt that's true  :lol:  But maybe it would suffice to add some more variety (more tom drums?) to some sections and it would be ok with this duration? I don't know.

Thanks very very much for any help you can provide, I have to learn to find when it's enough  

EDIT:
I've done another cut version:
http://oliwerko.ic.cz/Fjord_cut.mp3

This one is only 4:16 long, I tried to cut some repeating parts/solos from it so it wouldn't be so "same". Did it work?

[TheEagle]

Hi, Oliwerko.

Even if dance music is not really my cup of coffee, I like the background of your song (bass, percs, arps) and the structure itself is also ok.  But, to be honest, I think you should work on the main-melody. From my point of view it needs much more dramatic. I would add some more notes between the exisiting ones and use a bigger range of notes. Why not going to the next higher octave here and there?

But - as I wrote above - it's just a humble opinion of a "not-dance-music-lover"... :wink:

[apple-joe]

FJORD FULL
Chord structure: i - VII - III / i - VII - v? Not sure if it's III, but that's my assumption. Works good, at any rate.

Nice sound, no immediate observations.

The background melody that begins after a while sounded uninspired.

I tried to think of a few key points as I was listening, and around e.g. 3:30, my thought was (being aware of its 6 mins+ duration): "still basically the same tonality/atmosphere - change soon?"

Generally, the length is not the issue as I see it, but maybe a different chord sequence here and there could have rendered the song more refreshing? Also, I'm not sure whether I think the melody added much, at least not all of it. After one listen, my impression is that the lead was very static and tame, despite its harmonic correspondence with the rest.

I'll listen to the other versions soon, and maybe check out this one again in order to get a better understanding.


EDIT:
FJORD MILD CUT
Not much to add. It's less than a minute shorter than the longest, and I didn't react to anything specific. However, I did get to consider the melody again, and I may have a more precise response: The lead is quite pleasant to the ear, I have to admit it, but the rhythm of it is uninteresting and every note sounds like it is approached the same way. Is there not a way to spice up how at least some of the notes sound?

After listening to this and the longest one, my opinion is that if the natural starting point is the longest recording - if it ended up having that duration due to your sincere joy, creativity -, I'd rather try to make it more dynamic (improving the lead, throw in a new chord movement or two?) than reducing the length. Again, the core of the track works as it is, but you could have a look at some details (I noticed The Eagle pointed out a few things that appeared reasonable).


EDIT II:
FJORD SOLO CUT
Eight seconds shorter than mild cut. This listen made me more aware of the build-up/slow-down phase, which fits nicely. I stand by my initial reaction, anyway: the duration of the song is not the issue, but rather how the different parts sound. Would it be possible to have my and The Eagle's points in mind while trying to invigorate the leads? I certainly think more interesting melodies would contribute quite a bit to the overall impression, more than any other aspect I can think of rigt now. In case you're skeptical of altering the melodies: Maybe it's not even necessary to change the pitch of the note in many cases, but rather how it sounds/is approached, as well as its timing.

[Oliwerko]

Thanks very much for feedback.

You both bring up very interesting points.

Maybe I should mention one point that maybe matters:
I am planning on throwing in some female vocals. So the 'chorus' part is actually composed according to certain lyrics I have prepared. But I wanted to do an instrumental version first anyway, in case the vocals don't get finished.

I've tried fiddling with the melodies a little, but I always seem to just add another layer and then it sounds messy. Transponding doesn't work that well (or - transponding does, but subsequent return back to the native chord progression sounds weird). So what I wanted to do was to severely cut the duration, which resulted in the third 'cut' version (4:16).

I don't know what's holding me, if it's the fact that I want to do a vocal version or what, I just can't seem to be able to edit or add to the melodies; I always end up thinking "meh, the original one was better".

I'll play with it some more and try to bring some variety into it. Maybe make each repeat of the melody more intricate than the previous one? (Which is what I've actually done with the 'bell' synth joining the saw synth at 3:03 in the 'full' mix)

At least I know my objective - not cutting the 'full' mix, but rather adding something. The question is wheter to add 'on top' or just alternate?

[apple-joe]

I assume the lead instrument is of the VST type. Is it possible to configure, adjust in a way that opens up for more variation? It's been a few years now, but I had some problems with VSTis, more specifically with manipulating the sound of it in a precise manner (e.g. adding a tone portamento on three rows preceding a new note). Hence, the degree to which you are to blame for what I reacted to about the lead is dependent on how restrained you are due to the tools available. On the other hand, in order not to avoid the more critical approach: I guess it is possible to do wonders with severe limitations too.

Keep on working, but I hope you don't force anything if it entails an exaggeratedly artificial outcome (you already stated that the attempt at revising the melodies did not result in satisfaction).


I'll listen to the most recent upload soon.

[SkinTex]

Hmmmm, the background sound is good, it has atmosphere and it has rhythm. What i'm missing however, is something in the higher notes, seems like the whole song is in the bottom range of the equalizer.

Doesn't mean you have to create a whole new melody for it, try putting the lead instrument an octave up to see if it makes it abit more sparkly

Just my two cents.....

[Oliwerko]

Thanks for suggestions guys.

Unfortunately, after a few unsuccessful attempts, I have to conclude that I'm unable to do anything about the melodies. I've tried many approaches, but it didn't work as I would like it to.

So - I left it as it was, played with the effects and made the final mix, which can be found here:

http://oliwerko.ic.cz/In_the_morning_air_[instrumental].mp3

I would once more like to thank all of you very very much, I've learned a lot of things that will surely help me with my future creations.

And should anyone have any more suggestions, go ahead, any are welcome