(http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/3039/royalpp4.jpg)
Phew, alright here comes the full 1.1 version from the "crowd pleaser" trance song :D. It took me ages, nagging myself to finish it, but i am satisfied with it now.
Changes? More like a total reset, but i've picked the parts that i like from the old version (and enchanted them too). I've learned a tons of stuff since i've made the first version, so you can expect lots of nasty variations and effects going on. It's fairly harder than the original, i may put some 20-30 seconds "intro" to the beginning, to avoid the rushing kick.
Enjoy:
http://psi.lp1.nl/music/SignalChain-Royal1.1.mp3 (http://psi.lp1.nl/music/SignalChain-Royal1.1.mp3)
i dig the snare sound. a really nice trance tune, it could use more reverb so you can really "dive" into the sound, if you know what i mean.
the high-pass filter at 1:25 is too fast and too much. make it slower and don't go *that* high with the low frequency. but apart from that, it's nice.
This is pretty good - coming from a non-trance fan.
You know I love your timbres - have you ever tried ambient? I bet you could write an excellent ambient piece or two.
Yeah baby yeah! Full version, at last :D
I won't be singing praises here since I did it earlier IIRC :wink: (but I should anyway)
Will wait for 1.1 ver tho, judging by that little piece it is way cooler, imho.
mirror added
Notes as i'm listening:
Fine Trance. Excellent sonic technique for the genre. At 1:30, the song leaves being Trance to become Ambient, but finds its pulse again at about 2:05, something i would keep throughout the transition (if I composed it!). Love the chord progression of the main loop and the aural massage (not message, "MASSAGE" :D). Good music, will keep.
Quote from: "uncloned"You know I love your timbres - have you ever tried ambient? I bet you could write an excellent ambient piece or two.
hmmm, i've played with the idea. I think the "pure" ambient is a too restricted genre for me, i can use percussion or any stronger sounds, or variations. But maybe a mixed genre, ambient with breakbeats or similar will be ok for me 2 try.
Agressive break beat with a tension filled ambient wash sounds like a good thing to me ;-)
(A new version requries a new critique! 8) )
The skip on the very first beat definitely caught my attention (i don't remember it in the first version), and the continuing intro kept me tuned in. The drums are kept at a perfect distance underneath the synthwork, and i know that's hard to achieve. (We must exchange recipes! :D) Helluva bass line, especially when the music comes back at about 2:30. Excellent work and a noticeable improvement on the original -- altho i thought the original was fine! Another keeper by psishock!
This is so damn good I think I'm just going to give up...lol..ok, I won't give up, but the bar is so high, it will take a lot of reaching to get to your level. Congratulations on a first rate, very professional piece. I see a massive light show and 25,000 people in your future. Please remember me and all the little people when we stand in the rain and buy tickets to your concert...lol...
^^ I'm glad you've enjoyed it
tvdude!
Don't even think about giving up on us :D, look at the good tracks as a catalyst for the inspiration. I'm always looking forward to hear some nice progression from any person, and i haven't heard stuff from you for ages now, so don't be shy with posting. :D
If you're into uplifting trance, i can recommend you the
Drifting (http://forum.openmpt.org/index.php?topic=2760.0), the chance that you will like that one 2 is high. My composing skills have been sightly improved since Royal (which was basically my first finished "vsti" piece).
QuoteI see a massive light show and 25,000 people in your future. Please remember me and all the little people when we stand in the rain and buy tickets to your concert...lol...
If anything similar would happen', the OMPT posse will get VIP tickets, so the rain would be avoided. :lol:
No need to tell tvdude about trance. Check his "Kingdoms".
2 Psi Not only VIP tickets, I demand a backstage pass with access to booze, dope, and groupies..
The page cannot be found.....The page cannot be found.....The page cannot be found :crybaby:
...you have it somewhere on the disk Sam, by any chance?
*writes a list*
- make copies from the backstage door key.
- order 1 more truck booze, just to be safe.
- try to get exclusive dope for Sam.
- inform the groupies to bring their girlfriends too.
i think i've covered everything.
Exclusive not necessary, just plain hashish from the Maroc Rif mountains will do.
Try this one :
http://www.thepsproject.com/audio/kingdoms.mp3
I like kingdoms - much more to it than the typical for this genre.
let me modify - its not that I don't like trance/dance
I don't like lame composers who do nothing with the music but present a beat in a shiny package with a bow.
Perhaps that stuff works for some people. For me I like music that has something interesting about it. For instance I thought 2nd Reality kicked serious butt and may have been the first techno I had ever heard. But by the time I heard the 50th lame variation that added nothing to it... I got bored.
I know you can say the same for rock music.... and in fact my answer is *exactly* the same - where is the interesting parts for the listener?
I've know people who don't care about such issues and for them music is a commodity like wall paper. Its not art, has no real meaning, its all elevator music. There is a place in the world for that - but I'm not one of those people.
Thanks for the kind mention Sam Zen. :D
psischock, I hope you found that sams link to be working fine. Just so you know, I will be uploading hopefully within the month, I'm writing again for the first time in about 4 months. I love writing music, but haven't been inspired lately, I just picked it up again in the last couple of weeks. I'll look forward to your opinion when I upload.
Thank you Sam.
Tvdude, i've found your PM, i just wasn't near my pc these days, also i'm glad that you've regained the inspiration, will keep an eye for your new stuff.
Wonderful mix man. Professional sounds and it actually progresses and takes you places! Melodies are smart and an adventure to listen to. The melody actually drives the music instead of just the beat. It's so much more than a piece of smelly cheese!!!! I think I need to play with your music on the digital DJ decks and see what I can come up with. Bravo! You make my trance tracks sound like child's play. :idea:
Thank you for kind words Zaphoid, unfortunately it really lacks of technology and mastering, mostly because it was one of my first VSTi tracks (and i was unexperienced with the whole technology), but nevertheless it's an excellent material to make some really cool and kickin' tune from it. The melody is really catchy and the sounds are pretty.
QuoteYou make my trance tracks sound like child's play.
Is that so? Inspiring people to improve their standards and make better and better stuff is one of my goals. So go on, don't stay on a same spot, there are a tons of ways how can you improve your music. I love when people are getting really creative with the structure, sound progressions.
Quote from: psishockThank you for kind words Zaphoid, unfortunately it really lacks of technology and mastering, mostly because it was one of my first VSTi tracks (and i was unexperienced with the whole technology), but nevertheless it's an excellent material to make some really cool and kickin' tune from it. The melody is really catchy and the sounds are pretty.
Mastering sounded ok to me. I think your too hard on yourself. When it comes to artistry and musical creativity it is not what you know but what you do with what you know that counts. In other words working within your limitations allows you to worry less about technology and not knowing something and more on letting those creative juices flow freely. Do you think that Bob Dylan cared about sounding out of tune? He was not a good musician at least at the time and his voice sounded like crap. He although being weak in those areas became one of the most well known lyricists and songwriters. :D
that is true, i get your point Zaphoid, but my expectations are always pushing the limits, that's the way i work. :D I'm able to dig new grounds with this.
I think i can be successful in both, excellent sounding and technology, while keeping my creative ideas and progressions. If i'm not satisfied with any of my sides, i'm feeling that something is missing, so i just had to improve my weak points, to be able to go on further.
QuoteI think your too hard on yourself.
Sorry, i just couldn't resist to hit this joke. :D
(http://i28.tinypic.com/690pk1.jpg)
Love the comics! That's hilarious! :lol: I'm a grammar nazi too, but only with myself!
You commented, psishock, about the VST inexperience you were working under when assembling this track. But you know, it just goes to show you, real talent shines through lack of experience. Everytime you talk about this track, you seem to downplay it, saying it's not your best work, because of some limitation or another. And yet, this is one your BEST pieces. There is almost a concerto type of interplay between "instruments" and a consideration for composition that smacks of classicalism.
This is still in my rotation, and isn't going away. 8)
Hear, hear..
Harbinger, i know how you feel, but i try not to forget the other aspects and the technical part as well. I'm checking my compositions from several angles. I am aware that this piece has one of the best melodic progression and the pad/lead sounds are nice enough to listen, but i am also aware that the percussion work is more than crappy. Also the bass kick, and the bassline is rather weak, (mostly) because of the lack of sidechaining and eq separation, therefore the sounds are blurred together and pushing over each other. It lacks of stereo play as well. People tend to notice these stuff as well, apart from the melodic progression stuff. The best example is, that i was attending to an original competition whit this tune, but failed to be even noticed. The first 3 winner songs were (alot) weaker in melody and variation aspects compared to this tune, but were polished nicely from technical view, so majority of the people voted for them, because everything was in the right place, therefore it was nice enough to listen for most ears. "Tracked" musics mostly are unpolished from technically view and mostly focusing to bring out the artistic elements. I understand that this could be one of the reasons, why they aren't recognized by most of the people.
Now i could chose to do music for only myself and for other few ears and do something else for living, or try to blend it enough, improve the weak points to match potentially wider audience, thus i could be able to work on the field i love. I will try to maintain the creativity and push the technical level to acceptable, and if will still fail to accomplish anything worthwhile, i will stand down from my carrier, look for a regular daily job and will continue to compose for friends and myself.
Once again, i'm not trying to downplay this tune (one of the reasons is, because i like it a lot), but speaking from my experiences and viewing it from many aspects.
Sounds great! Nice job! :D
BIG update, check the first page. :D
I'm not a big trance fan - nonetheless it is hard not to get caught up in this!
the sounds you use are great and well balanced - and... there is a lot more to this then 99% of the trance I've listened to.
The only critique is - is this possibly too compressed? Or are you side chaining with the kick or something?
hey uncloned,
QuoteThe only critique is - is this possibly too compressed? Or are you side chaining with the kick or something?
can you describe the trouble more, or if happens rarely, can you point out the second? I'm not sure what is bothering your ears.
I am sidechaining yes, to give that pumping push with each kick, but that shouldn't sound "negative". I was intentionally used heavy pushes on a few parts when those highly reverbed basskicks hit on the dramatic moments, to give even more room to the dominant sounds.
at 2:30 at 6:51
it is probably the "pumping" I don't like - so that's a personal preference and I'm not at all in your target audience.
hmmm, strangely i don't notice anything unusual on those times, but listened to it a few times. Mayb your ears are starting to notice the monotonic sidechaining on those times (it's there all the time btw) and you get bothered by it. I will leave it like this then for now.
WUT?! Another Royal version? Can it be any better? A perfectionist you are, psi! Now i'll go count how many Royals I already have :D
You know, every time I listen to a version of this track, the development of your main melodic motif (in this version, at around 3.50) always sounds awesome. :) I really like the fact that the melody isn't always predictable -- it keeps everything interesting.
In terms of production, I actually agree with Clones about the 'pumping' being a bit off-putting -- but this is also probably just my preference. Most of the trance I listen to is in the Chicane vein, which is more laid back than this more 'exciting' style. :) Speaking of which, when can we expect the Chicane-esque chillout verison? :P
Great work as always, Psi.
Notes as i'm listening
Really missed the arpeggio that brought in the main melody, and the interaction of the instruments. You've changed the song so much i'm forced to critique it as if i had not heard the original version. But there are specific reasons i love the 1.0 version, and they all were taken away in this version. So here's a new critique.
The driving beat is so inspiring, but as i've always complained about your Trance, psishock, you don't believe in keeping that pulse going throughout the whole track. Which makes it hard to dance to. (Yjana always remixes your good songs with a solid nonstop beat so she can dance to it.) The instrumentation and effects are fine, and this is where the improvements lie. The melodic progression is sparse and the bass line seems to be phoning it in, but if i asked you to make any improvements, you would find yourself at the 1.0 version -- only longer.
I know you worked hard on this, but in an effort to make it better, you took the good stuff away. I'll keep the original as it outshines this version. Perhaps you can call this the "Educated" mix. :wink:
Harbinger:
Quote from: "Harbinger"Really missed the arpeggio that brought in the main melody
It's there :D, most of the time, but i've buried it to the background, so it's not a main thingy anymore but it gives a good (great) groove that goes really well with the claps and with the kick also. Try this:
http://psishock.lpchip.com/music/its_there.mp31/3: what you've missed, the difference is that it follows different chords.
2/3: how i've buried it with custom shaped LFO, routed to low pass.
3/3: revealing some additional layers to show that it sounds great this way.
Quote from: "Harbinger"and the interaction of the instruments.
well, i believe there are tons of more interactions here than in the previous :), only some layers are missing from the original (that couldnt fit), but really a lot new were added.
Quote from: "Harbinger"you took the good stuff away
can you be more specific about this? I brought here everything that i've liked from the first, only used them differently and added tons of more.
what is clearly missing:
-the simple filler melody that starts from 00:59+ (got actually other plans with it)
-that little string messing what starts right from 00:02
Quote from: "Harbinger"I know you worked hard on this
that's maybe not the most emphatic word for this 1.1 release. :)
Quote from: "Harbinger"Perhaps you can call this the "Educated" mix
:lol: haha, well i don't take these processes as remixing, rather completely reworking them from different views.... well technically that is remixing :P but a +.1 version improvement is easier to follow and to count, rather than having a couple of remix names. I'm with Jean Michel Jarre on this one. ;)
Nahkranoth:
glad you've dropped in, perfectionist i am indeed :D that is why it taking so long to have new songs, i'm messing with it quite some time, and if unsatisfied, re-messing with them again, as you can c.
Quote from: "Nahkranoth"Now i'll go count how many Royals I already have
haha :lol:, now lemme count... 1..2..oh, there should be 3, it seems that nobody noticed the guitar solo "version". :D
bvanoudtshoorn:
thx for nice comments Barry!
QuoteSpeaking of which, when can we expect the Chicane-esque chillout verison?
On Royal? :D This is a very hard and technical piece, so a chilly version would be a total rework again. I would say on this point that i wont touch this piece of c..music for some longer time, but even i'm not sure what will bring the future. As always, the right mood can give good inspiration.
bully34: thank you for listening and commenting it.
Quote from: "psishock"Quote from: "Harbinger"you took the good stuff away
can you be more specific about this? I brought here everything that i've liked from the first, only used them differently and added tons of more.
Well, i didn't want to guide your composition in case you had a specific vision. But if you want to know how other ears hear it, i'd love to tell ya. Only problem is, you may be finished this week, and i won't be back online till next weekend, and i don't want you to slow down on my account.
The main thing i listened for in the second version was the melodic pingpong between the high pass tone and the more supersaw timbre. They seemed to interrupt each other as they each played the melody in the latter part of the track, which reminded me of a Baroque concerto done in trance. I wish i could describe it better, but if you're not finished by the end of this week, i'll get back to you.
Oh, i thing i c wacha mean, it's 02:28+ in 1.0 right? That is one of my technical tricks of layered sounds. It is right there in the 1.1 if you listen to it carefully (example it hits on 03:36 in 1.1), but seem to get eated up more in the swarm of the layers later on, i could try to enhance it up, but i think it's quite noticeable enough. (well, it's off when the that supersaw like thingy hit on 4:45 in 1.1, but it comes back right after it... i had to do this because that part has a different meaning in the new version)
QuoteBut if you want to know how other ears hear it, i'd love to tell ya
These are one of the most important comments for me (and the technical suggestions), 'course that i want to hear, how the others are hearing the songs. :D
Quoteand i don't want you to slow down on my account.
dont worry 'bout that, i have tons of other songs, stuff to work on, if i let one or more of them to hang for a while, it won't make any difference at all on my work progress.
Quote from: "psishock"
Quote from: "Nahkranoth"Now i'll go count how many Royals I already have
haha :lol:, now lemme count... 1..2..oh, there should be 3, it seems that nobody noticed the guitar solo "version". :D
Believe me, I've noticed :D Just can't comment on too much stuff at once.
Now I'll go and write something stupid :D
[EDIT] Ah, it's in this post too...
I've noticed 2-3 notes that do not fit in the chord, but I guess you know this already and it's done deliberately.
This is a nice "tribute" to Royal, and I gotta try to play it on a real guitar now :D Argh! My hands are itching :twisted:
QuoteJust can't comment on too much stuff at once.
oh, just take your time. :D
QuoteNow I'll go and write something stupid
lol :lol:
QuoteI've noticed 2-3 notes that do not fit in the chord, but I guess you know this already and it's done deliberately.
yes i am aware of the "wrong" notes and they are intentional here, it adds more nicer warmth to the next "right" notes and chords. (now that surely sounded like a weird policy...but oh well :))
QuoteThis is a nice "tribute" to Royal, and I gotta try to play it on a real guitar now :D Argh! My hands are itching :twisted:
oh wow, this means we will have a grooving metal or rock version too, soon? ::)
Quote from: "psishock"oh wow, this means we will have a grooving metal or rock version too, soon?
I'm thinking of something like that, but maybe next year if I'll ever manage.
And of course if the copyright holder will allow me to do such perversion :P
At least it gave me an inspiration to work on my playing, but if it will sound shyte (and it will :D ) there are virtual equivalents which will do better than my lousy technique (more like the absence of it :D )
QuoteAnd of course if the copyright holder will allow me to do such perversion :P
i make no biggy about these stuff, so you don't have to worry, if have anything in mind, i would be more than glad to hear it whenever it's done or in listen-able form. Perversions are also welcome. :D The only thing i would like, is to keep my full original pieces from the "wide audience" at this moment, simply because i'm planning to release them later on. :)