http://rawstory.com/news/2008/San_Diego_GOP_chairman_cofounded_international_0425.html
I think the title of your post should be "Did you know that warez scene is a secretive criminal society?".
Boo, how can you confuse fairlight cracks with fairlight demos? The people behind those are not the same (though one group origins from the other of course). Thanks for correcting g.
If you read the article carefully, you will see that the article mixes the two effectively.
Also read here:
http://www.pouet.net/topic.php?which=5278&page=1&x=19&y=9
as you might have seen, i have even participated in that thread over a year ago, so... old news :\
Yep, but someone brought it up today on pouet )
old news, you are talking to a pouet addict. :\
:P
What is the point of repeatedly telling me that it is old news? Can't I post a topic about something that is not new or is this a news site?
Sorry, am I not allowed to have fun?
I am not a pouet addict, and haven't heard of this "news", so i thank LV for posting it. It's somewhat a common phenomena however, that ppl are misunderstanding and mixing totally different stuff (warez scene/demo scene) if they're not really in the picture. The bad stuff is, that ppl, who read these news in papers, and have no knowledge about these stuff neither, will believe the written (mis)information, and will learn/spread it that way.
QuoteSorry, am I not allowed to have fun?
well sure you do, but it seemed that LV didn't felt, that you're just messing with him. :P
the connection is justified because demos were created to show off the skills of the people making the warez back in the days of 8 bit computing.
the demo community came from the warez community - at one time they were the same community.
Well, as for "normal" people, they don't even get the chance to mix the two up - because most of them are not even aware of the existance of the demoscene. At most, they know Cracktros with stolen scenemusic.
you're saying uncloned, that the same people who actually cracked the protection codes, coded the 2d/3d animations and designed the artistic demo runs? These two profession needs totally different technical knowledge imho. (ok programming - programming, but that's a hugely wide area)
You may think so but that's wrong. It was in fact the crackers who added intros to their cracked games. Later, those intros became independent. And there was nothing like 3D or "design" back then.
well i know what ya mean, but those scrolling cracktro-s are one thing to me, and "demos" are yet totally different (we had/have many cool 2s stuff, don't have to think about the 3d only, it was just an example). I think it probably "divided" when we stopped talking about "crackto group introductions" and started to think about the artistic demonstrations.
Yeah, although I still love 2D demos with scrolling text )))
they were ok and fun, but it didn't "moved" anything in me. When we're talking about actual demos, now that's something really creative and admirable for me. :D
I <3 sinus scroller with starfield
Its just evolution Psi. Cows and tigers come the same mammal-ish ancestor.
psi: I am talking about demos too. They do still produce 2D and Future Crew did it and lots of groups do it. 2D is charming and will never be forgotten.
uncloned: i see...
LV: oh, but i absolutely adore the 2D, technical demos too, i thought you were only talking about those scrolling cracktros, they are insignificant to me.
May I offer a different point of view?
One of the aspects that demos, either cractros, 2d or (originally) 3d demos could be appreciated for is the assembler code involved.
Even the the crack scrollers involved intimate knowledge of the hardware and assembly language - that was part of the whole point of making them ... it said - "I cracked the game and now I'm dancing on top of it to boot".
To be honest modern demos which involved specialized high end graphic cards, multi cpus and C++ programing impress me much less than 2nd reality running on a 386 or 286.
That is for me what was so impressive about 2nd reality - a convergence of visual, audio, and *programming* art. The demos today are just movies - they don't move me in the same way at all.
2nd reality on a 286, you're kidding me. it's already slow on a 386. :P
cracktros were also much more than just showing that you cracked a game and can program a sine scroller. especially on platforms like the c64, this was used to show off new techniques, to show that you can have more sprites on the screen than your friend, etc... That's it - it might not be as "appealing", it was often rather "coder porn".
Not kidding - a 286 but not any 286 - info should be in the zip.
Heh! Coder p0rn!
Steve Gibson may be the last assembler hack who isn't writing device drivers.
I bought a bunch of books on assembler, grahics cards, and soundblaster cards. I studies and wrote some mediocre utilities. Nonetheless I think asm is cool.
2nd reality, it was one of the first PC-demos that I've watched. It's somewhat a standard to me, on the PC demo scene. It did run slow on my first PC, 368 DX (with turbo), which was quite fast, considering my previous one, Commodore 64.
QuoteThat is for me what was so impressive about 2nd reality - a convergence of visual, audio, and *programming* art. The demos today are just movies - they don't move me in the same way at all.
well i don't care what tool/resource do you use, but what do you have/make in the end. So the programing and optimizing aspect worth less to me, and the artistic and creative aspect very much more. If you have a very artistic and outstanding product and less optimized, well, well done, i value it very much. If you have a specially optimized and poorly designed product, it wont inspire that much (or at all). Why should i care about the code, if i'm not a programmer? If the product works, and runs well, i will be pleased and amazed. Functionality.
Quote from: "psishock"i thought you were only talking about those scrolling cracktros, they are insignificant to me.
tbh, I am not sure I ever saw a cracktro.
Quote from: "psishock"
well i don't care what tool/resource do you use, but what do you have/make in the end. So the programing and optimizing aspect worth less to me, and the artistic and creative aspect very much more. If you have a very artistic and outstanding product and less optimized, well, well done, i value it very much. If you have a specially optimized and poorly designed product, it wont inspire that much (or at all). Why should i care about the code, if i'm not a programmer? If the product works, and runs well, i will be pleased and amazed. Functionality.
No offense intended - my observation is:
Then.... why bother with demos at all? The whole idea about demos is to make a computer do something spectacular - something that pushes the machine to its limits. If you can't appreciate that then it truly is just a movie for you and you might as well be looking at a Disney/Pixar release.
QuoteThen.... why bother with demos at all?
I'm not bothering with them at all :D, lately i'm just checking the good ones on youtube HD and moving on. They are audio-visual experience for me, nothing more. I'm checking Maya and 3D Studio Max animation-likes too, as you've mentioned, but the demo-s are more cleverly, and artistically designed, like the creators are totally letting their mind loose, that is what i love on them the most. Unfortunately, as far as i've checked, any other material, that is not scene related, focuses on "every day", "human" stuff, thus are mostly good for a laugh, but uninteresting/uninspiring to me. If "normal" movies could give me the exact same experience, i might neglect these demos, but lately, with word wide streaming services available, they're not any harder to "run".
QuoteThe whole idea about demos is to make a computer do something spectacular - something that pushes the machine to its limits.
Well, i think lately it's more focused to amusement, because ppl don't really care about the technical parts, but always amazed if experiencing something spectacular. A highly technical but boring demo worth much less, than a good amusing one, in people's eyes.
QuoteNo offense intended
aw, we don't need to mention this from time to time, to each other, i know you mean no harm by any chance Uncloned, we definitely don't need to have 100% exact viewpoint from everything, that is why we share them, to learn from each other.
There's always been the two parties: coder porn vs. eye candy. lately, there is much more eye candy fly-by stuff than 10 or 20 years ago. Both kinds of demos have their right to exists, and both can be exciting.
QuoteWell, i think lately it's more focused to amusement, because ppl don't really care about the technical parts
Nothing could be far from the truth. You should attend a demoparty some day ;)
QuoteYou should attend a demoparty some day
I am planning. :D Not easy to organize everything, get a visa, and separate founds for the task.
What country are you from? Chances are you can find a local demoparty.
nah, i'm from Serbia, we have mountains and goats, or agriculture on the flat area :D. People don't really care about good stuff here.
Well. I'm from Barcelona, and I don't know nuzzin'..
Getting a Visa should really not keep you from coming. Contacting the party organizers in advance and asking them for assistance does help.
Sure, i admit that money is the biggest issue, the other stuff can be worked out, this one needs to be earned. :D