Allright guys, i'm brand spankin' new to your club, so bear with me when it becomes blatantly obvious how noobie i am...
I'm actually a Mac user (i can hear the boos and hisses already! :) ), but i use Virtual PC 3.0 to gain access to most of the Win98 applications. I can't do any high-graphic games, because my Powermac G3 only goes 0 to 266Mhz in about 4 secs., but a low-graphic app like ModPlug Tracker works great. Which is why i'm here.
I actually bought VirtualPC to be able make maps for Unreal Tournament (UT99). While the Mac version of UT99 plays great on the G3 (even at only 233Mhz proc speed), UnrealEd is strictly for Windows machines. So i got a used Win98 CD of UT99 from eBay, ran the editor under VPC, and it seems to work fine (as soon as i learn how to use UnrealEd, one of the most anti-intuitive world editors out there).
Meanwhile, i found a Mac app called UMXconvertor or something like that, that converts .umx files to there native format ? .it, .s3m, or .xm, all of which i'd never heard of. However, an application i've used for a long time on the Mac called SoundApp plays .it and .s3m files (but not .xm's).
But i needed to figure out how to make music for UT99, and none of the software i had could make the file formats that UnrealEd can handle. A quick search on the Internet for an .it editor, and i ran across ModPlug Tracker.
Now understand, i have many years of electronic musical composition, mostly thru "sequencing", as opposed to tracking. My favorite app was Master Tracks Pro 4 (now obsolete), which did all i needed to do and more. Sequencers like Pro-4 only transmit and receive MIDI messages, but do not manipulate the sounds and samples that they use (you also needed a MIDI instrument, altho recent versions of Master Tracks can use the QuickTime instrument library). Tracking, however, does involve manipulating the actual sound data, at least in an output path. The flip side of this is that, while ModPlug can manipulate the samples as well as order their play, i find that i'm unable to filter the list of "notes" in order to manipulate only certain punches in a channel, which sequencing would allow me to do. For example, i can't change all the F#4's in one channel to another note, or ramp their volumes. However, i'm getting away from my point.
I must give my thanks to Mr. Lapicque not only for such a well-composed application in ModPlug Tracker (MPT you call it?), but also for making it free. He could have charged a couple of pennies for it, but perhaps he understands that tools of creation should be made available without charge to the few artists who can use them, even if it's only a piece of intellectual property that exists in a virtual world (our computers).
So my question is, am i correct in assuming that MPT can create the format necessary for UnrealEd to convert to .umx? All i hafta do is save it in .it format (my preferred tracking format, since it's so open), and load it from UnrealEd?
OMG! YOu actually searched the forum before posting! Theres hope for all! YAY! (You called it MPT, not just ModPlug Tracker)
Heh yeah, MPT can edit and save s3m, xm, it, and uhh one other format, I think. Just remember to click "Compatibility Export" if you are using the latest WIP (which you should be for that feature). It can't save as UMX as far as I know, but it sounds like you can convert it yourself.
So I hope I understood you right and all you watned to know was if it can edit those, and it can, thats why it was made. If you have any further questions, remember to search the forum first, then if nothing shows up, feel free to ask, thats what we are here for.
And enjoy the wonderful world of tracking!
Squirrel makes an important point: for historical reasons, by default OpenMPT (and the original MPT, to a lesser extent) sticks a load of extra crap at the end of the IT and XM files (we know this is bad and we're working on a new, separate file format to cater for our extra crap). Many IT/XM compatible programs aren't bothered by this and just ignore our extra crap. But if your IT->UMX converter barfs, or if Unreal barfs on the resulting UMX, then the solution is probably to export your IT with the File/Compat Export option in the latest dev build, as Squirrel pointed out.
QuoteFor example, i can't change all the F#4's in one channel to another note, or ramp their volumes.
Hmm.. The transpose or find&replace features might help for that. But it's true that the GUI isn't geared towards applying specific transformations to all instances of a particular note - but rather to a contiguous set of rows.
By the way, MPT should be able to open UMX directly (UMX is just an IT, XM, S3M or MOD with a small header to identify the format).
I remember from the previous forum-version that this issue of the UMX-format was discussed, because lots of users nowadays use (O)MPT to make compositions for games. So you will get your answers here, I'm sure.
In the meantime, after some search, I came upon this (http://www.bulldozer.utjag.co.uk/WaveToUMX.htm) .
I must admit, i got an earlier version of MPT, and just DL'd 1.17.02.42, so i'll take that home and see what extras i get. I guess i should keep the older version in case i get some bugs, 'cause the earlier one seemed to ber VERY stable. (Actually one bug came up, but i don't know if it has to do with MPT, SoundApp, or VirtualPC.)
Hey, rewbs, if i can filter certain notes or samples in a channel, and list and work with only those, that'll save me $60 i was going to pony up to buy Master Tracks Pro-6 (a MIDI sequencer that would allow me to filter notes, instruments, etc.)!
You rock, Sam_Zen! Thanx for the link, that's exactly what i needed... :wink:
I'd just like to add that UMX doesn't support all the features of S3M, XM, or IT. I believe volume envelopes, filters and NNA's are not supported, and the volume of the song will be much lower in Unreal than it is in the tracker.
UT99's UMX files are very similar to IT/XM (you can open them in MPT but can't save them out as the same format).
UnrealEd 2 can convert them, though - use the Import option on the Music Browser "File" menu to select an IT, and save it out as a UMX package.
If you're going to download the latest beta build, please note that you'll need to install the latest RC (RC2) build first. If you don't you don't get all the extra files you need, like the key presets file, etc...
Maybe the filtering what you are looking for exists in the effects collumn?
I'm not really sure what you're after with that, but I think you can use the effects collumn for that. Its there to do something with a single note!
Quote from: "LPChip"Maybe the filtering what you are looking for exists in the effects collumn?
He wants to be able to process just a certain note (like all C-4's in a channel), which is very easy to when using a piano roll but impossible in a tracker. Of course the find/replace function will do the job, but it's not very intuitive. I'm not sure
why that functionality is important tho...
Quote from: "speed-goddamn-focus"I'm not sure why that functionality is important tho...
If we could get custom pattern transform scripting (http://openmpt.xwiki.com/xwiki/bin/view/Development/ScriptablePatternTransforms) into OpenMPT, these discussions would be a thing of the past... :D
Quote from: "rewbs"Quote from: "speed-goddamn-focus"I'm not sure why that functionality is important tho...
If we could get custom pattern transform scripting (http://openmpt.xwiki.com/xwiki/bin/view/Development/ScriptablePatternTransforms) into OpenMPT, these discussions would be a thing of the past... :D
I think not! I will ALWAYS wonder why.
Quote from: "Wong"UT99's UMX files are very similar to IT/XM (you can open them in MPT
I didn't know this. I just checked the 'open' section again, and this file-format is not on the list.
Quote from: "rewbs"Quote from: "speed-goddamn-focus"I'm not sure why that functionality is important tho...
If we could get custom pattern transform scripting (http://openmpt.xwiki.com/xwiki/bin/view/Development/ScriptablePatternTransforms) into OpenMPT, these discussions would be a thing of the past... :D
I read this Wiki thread, and I would kill for this feature. But why stop at manipulating pattern data? Why not manipulate sample data? Use it for VST/i automation? I always thought MPT could benefit from built in scripting. THen you could map certain scripts to certain keys and execute them in one keypress. That would be killer!
I just thought of a cool feature that could be implimented in a script. Mass wav conversion of all songs in a dir. And calling on external tools from inside a script. That way you could convert all your MODs to MP3 and put them on your ipod. That would be killer
I would prefer script options dealing with 'inside' elements instead of e.g. sound-format convertions.
So a script for playing back the pattern order of a certain module in a certain way.
UT99 was actually how I started using Modplug Tracker. I wanted to convert other music to .umx form, and got Modplug for that very purpose. Then the penny dropped and I realised I could make my own music with the program. Shame it all sucks, huh? :twisted:
Similarly, I downloaded MPT so that I could make music for Megazeux. This is a game creation system that was written as a sequel of sorts to one of Epic's first games, ZZT.
So everything is linked and there is order in the universe, good night.
MPT was the first tracker I ever used. I got it when I was searching for alternatives to MIDI (to listen to, not to make), and alternatives to RealMedia files for techno music. I found MPC, and I installed the plugin, then I went to the spinner, and heard this mod (http://www.rodent-revenge.com/blog/mission.zip) (or one similar), and I was blown away that sound quality so good (for it's time) was possible in such a small file. And I was so into techno (this was durring the rave craze of the late 90s), I thought "Wow, I gotta find a way to make something like this", so I saw a link that said "What would you like to do?" and the options were like "Download music", "Listen to music", then there was one that said "Make your own music", and I checked that out and it was a link to the MPT site (same server, but different section I believe). I checked it out, and of course had no samples, and when I read online about sampling, it was talking about samplin from audio CDs, so I popped in my Sunscreem CD and took some vocal samples from it, and well made the worst song in history. And I'm one to give up in the beginning, when things get hard. BUt I didn't give up. There was a hiatus between 1999 and 2001, then I took it seriously. But I'm glad I stuck with it, I've produced atleast a few songs I'm proud of, even if other people didn't like them.
Quote from: "speed-goddamn-focus"I'd just like to add that UMX doesn't support all the features of S3M, XM, or IT. I believe volume envelopes, filters and NNA's are not supported, and the volume of the song will be much lower in Unreal than it is in the tracker.
That's good to know... Has anyone done any experimentation with the conversion allowances? If not, i will and i'll get back to you in this thread.
I AM concerned about the extra stuff that the latest version of MPT adds (at the end of the .it file?). Will this affect UnrealEd's conversion, L-chip?
Quote from: "speed-goddamn-focus"He wants to be able to process just a certain note (like all C-4's in a channel), which is very easy to when using a piano roll but impossible in a tracker. Of course the find/replace function will do the job, but it's not very intuitive. I'm not sure why that functionality is important tho...
Sequencers like those from Master Tracks allows mass editing of any MIDI messages; once you've worked with this capability, you can't do any electronic music composition without it.
For example, the other day while putting together an .it track, i needed to switch all the C notes down an octave (because the sample at that note wasn't the sound i was looking for). If that's the only notes that were in that channel there'd be no problem, but i also mix instruments within one channel (like drums) as long as they don't interfere with each other. I also needed to lower the volume only of
that sample in
that channel. MPT does not expect me to use it like a sequencer, so there's no ability to filter notes or other volume or FX data.
I guess what i'm saying is, MPT would do better if you can select non-contiguous data. This can be done by shift-clicking and dragging the selection rect over the target (this is second nature for mac users), or by presenting a dialog box which first asks you to narrow down which data to select (such as all C5s with instrument 01 with volume over 32) and then asks what you want to do with it (attenuate the volume, add panning effects, transpose down an augmented fifth, or the like) ? this was the method that Master Tracks used. And believe me, if MPT had this capability, this would set MPT apart.
As a matter of fact, tracking should actually be called
channeling, because as i'm learning, MPT uses data primarily by channel ? mostly because the sound data is included within the file and the software only needs to know when to play the data and on what channel (plus what to do with the channel sound in some cases). Sequencers are the ones that actually use data by tracks; you can have all you channels on one track if you wish, or divide the MIDI data among tracks with little concern about the channel the computer is using. But that's just FYI...
I took the latest version of MPT home (2.42 for short), and was happy with the new features ? altho i had a few issues with the layout, since i only use a 1024x768 screen (the Channel Manager window was too big, for example). I also had a problem with "bouncing" playback, but i think that has more to do with the speed of my machine (which is about 150mHz with VirtualPC). But i LOVE the key assignment options, as well as the extra panes within each window (pitch manipulation, etc.).
BTW, concerning my question previously with the resonance effects: THANKYOU, Mr. LaPicque!! There is now a slider which allows random fluctuations of both cutoff
and resonance; now i can tap my rez synth rhythm and get that perfect rave track! (Altho i'd still like to figure out how to use the Zxx FX for moving the sliders from within the track.)
Quote from: "Harbinger"...or by presenting a dialog box which first asks you to narrow down which data to select (such as all C5s with instrument 01 with volume over 32) and then asks what you want to do with it (attenuate the volume, add panning effects, transpose down an augmented fifth, or the like) ? this was the method that Master Tracks used. And believe me, if MPT had this capability, this would set MPT apart.
Find/replace still sounds just like a rough version of the thing descriped there, but it has already been mentioned twice so maybe it is not such :) What's the essential difference between that functionality and the one provided by find/replace(or is find/replace just too 'rough' tool)?
I'll admit i haven't used the Find/Replace yet. I'll see if that'll help when i work on some tracks tonight. Thanks for the heads-up...
After using Find/Replace, it appears that's exactly what i was looking for.
Well, almost! One of the things i'd like to do is Find all Effects messages in a channel (say, Zxx) and interpolate them or even thin them (so as to reduce the events that are processed). Hopefully, the next release will have this function.
But for now, it helps me to select only the data i need and manipulate it. Thanks, relabsoluness!
Quote from: "speed-goddamn-focus"I'd just like to add that UMX doesn't support all the features of S3M, XM, or IT. I believe volume envelopes, filters and NNA's are not supported, and the volume of the song will be much lower in Unreal than it is in the tracker.
Regarding what you said, and the differences I remember betwen the sound ingame and via player (that is, I remember there
were differences), I believe it's just an Unreal engine issue, and has nothing to do with the format itself, which this entry in wikipedia:emphasizes:
".umx (originated in Unreal) Is basically an Impulse Tracker file, except it is used for music on the unreal games."
Quote from: "DMNXS"Regarding what you said, and the differences I remember betwen the sound ingame and via player (that is, I remember there were differences), I believe it's just an Unreal engine issue, and has nothing to do with the format itself, which this entry in wikipedia:emphasizes:
".umx (originated in Unreal) Is basically an Impulse Tracker file, except it is used for music on the unreal games."
You're quite right, and I guess that's good to know for anyone feeling the urge to use the .umx format outside of the Unreal engine. :P