Hi & a happy new year everybody.
Today I would like to introduce the second and final part of my symphonic-rock-ballad Confusing Thoughts (https://www.qdrive.net/download/sharelinkdownloader.php?id=67609&key=6h492gLxGdX7IbH2KxX52XX4Cm4v8jX6GhB):
Confusing Thoughts II (No Confusion Anymore) (https://www.qdrive.net/download/sharelinkdownloader.php?id=67610&key=7InH9GXN7tgDsKhX5IqPxGpN5MqX4ChB9Ab)
I hope, you'll like it...
Greetings
TheEagle
Great track, very enjoyable.
very nice composition Mr Eagle!!
A lot of dramatic moments and beautiful melodies here.
Thank you both for listen and the comments.
Enjoyed ! Quite romantic, in a good sense.
Thank you for your feedback, sam. Glad you like it.
The very nice sound struck me first. As far as I can tell, both the i - VII - VI and the i - VI - VII chord sequences were used in the beginning before a transition-like phase based on i - VI - VII - v - VI... or similar. Then a new progression that lasted for a while. I've listened a few times now, but during the first listen I noticed and liked this particular chord change since it represented some sort of an end of the beginning/something new, the bass and acoustic guitar were introduced and there was the brief i - III - VII movement.
Guitar solo/lead around 3:52. Suited the context, melodic and satisfying to the ear. That said, I reacted to the sound of the solo instrument (i.e. not the note choice). The sound itself is of high quality from what I can tell, but it appeared a little dead, in lack of a better/more precise description. I guess the explanation is that it's a VST instrument and possibilities of defining the sound of individual notes are restricted? Of course, my reaction is probably a result of at least moderately nostalgic tendencies and not being very up to date on newer sounds/developments, I've never really explored VST instruments, but I recall having some issues related to VST based leads.
Approximately 5:35: a rather sudden break. This is only one example of several build ups/slow downs that contribute to a more dynamic song, which is very welcome since the general tonality of the track is quite static. Consciousness about structure/intensity, combined with varied progressions (although based primarily - even exclusively? - on the same tonal center), render the song less monotonous. Straight forward, but efficient ending.
The track's duration exceeds 7 minutes, yet all of which were enjoyable I think. Impressive overall sound, although the guitar lead/solo instrument may have lacked some expressiveness. The (at least apparent) careful focus on song structure certainly decreased the probability of more uninteresting, static music, considering the length.
*wow* Thank you very much for your comment and your detailed analysis, apple-joe.
I really appreciate it....
Quote from: "TheEagle"*wow* Thank you very much for your comment and your detailed analysis, apple-joe.
I really appreciate it....
Thoughts on the VST/lead issue? Are you familiar with the phenomenon or am I out of synch with time (I wouldn't rule it out)? Was my suspicion justified in this particular case, at any rate?
You may have noticed that my English is not very good but I will try to answer your question as good as I can.
All instruments (except the bass) I used in this song are vsti. And I think I know what you mean when you say the lead guitar sounds 'dead'.
When a real guitar player plays a melody again and again, it will never sound always the same. There are always slight variations in playing. I think, the reason for this is, that the player never hit the guitar strings at -exactly- the same point. And this is what I would call "soulful" or "emotional" playing.
And these slight variations that makes the difference between 'vital' or 'dead' guitars-sound cannot be simulated by a vsti. Or better: I never heard about a vsti, that could do this...
I have to say, that I'm not a guitar player. I never learned to play an instrument, so what I mentioned above is just 'guessing' but not 'knowing'.
Maybe Mr Uncloned, as a guitar-player, could explain that further...
EDIT
Almost forgotten: You 're right. When you use a vsti the notes (mostly) cannot be manipulated (volume, pitch, etc.) in OMPT directly. That's why I prefer not to use a vsti for the bass. I love to let the bass 'slide' here and there, which is not possible (afaik) with a vsti-bass...
I think including bends and vibrato in the guitar lead part would help liven it up a bit.
Also.... though one likes to use a bright tone the "format" of the guitar is really evident and like a voice, which also has a "format" a higher guitar pitch can sound unnatural. By using a darker tone this problem can be largely avoided. (example - see my post of Dead Land which uses a home made guitar sample).
I can't find a reference to "format" - it is like a filter that never moves superimposed over the signal no matter what pitch is played / sung.
In any case, on your high lead notes I hear this "format" problem but this is far less important than using bends and vibratos.
But ignore all of this - the composition itself is very good and enjoyable.
QuoteI think including bends and vibrato in the guitar lead part would help liven it up a bit.
+1
also you can try to mess with "humanizing" on the timing. Those slight timing differences adds up "life", nobody plays with perfect timing in reality, only software can be that accurate all the time. And even non musician ears can pick up that difference and will find the sound artificial.
To be honest, you can mimic almost every move, that the player does with live instruments, but need to think on every single detail that could happen, on the composing phase (even on those stuff that are happening somewhat unintentionally).
Quote from: "psishock"To be honest, you can mimic almost every move, that the player does with live instruments, but need to think on every single detail that could happen, on the composing phase (even on those stuff that are happening somewhat unintentionally).
Well, basically you're right. Of course, in order to let the guitar-solo sound more natural, I could have used multiple instances of the guitar vsti and not just one or two, but I think the effort should be manageable.
Quote from: "psishock"And even non musician ears can pick up that difference and will find the sound artificial.
At this point, I have to disagree. I think most people today don't -really- listen to the music, they simply consume it.
An example:
I've published some of my songs within my "social environment" (family, friends, colleagues, etc.) and one of the questions have been asked most frequently was: "When did you learn to play guitar?" It was always a surprise for those people, when I answered (truthful) that the guitars in these songs are just simulated and I never learned to play a real guitar... :wink:
you have a choice
Nothing is ever wrong, really
having a non-vibrato guitar lead could be considered a stylistic marker for you
or
you can go for realism - and where you stop is up to you
If you want to imitate my leads I think that bends and vibratos are the minimum
But, as I said, the composition is excellent, so it really is a composer choice, not necessity.
Quote from: "uncloned"If you want to imitate my leads I think that bends and vibratos are the minimum.
Uhmm, I'm sorry Mr Uncloned, maybe I misunderstood what this sentence should tell me...
As I wrote in other topics here in this forum, I like your guitar-sound very much (I really do!) and I like the guitar-sound of Gilmour, Satriani, Vai, Bettencourt and many others as well.
But I
never tried to imitate you or anyone else. And I won't do this in the future...
why not?
I'm not suggesting you sound like me - I'm suggesting your guitar to be more expressive like me (and all those others)
It is unlikely you'd sound like me (or those others) unless you wre real intentional in doing so because everyone's style is a matter of choices - and you'd have to make all of the same choices I (or those others) would in a given situation. Very unlikely - and doesn't work for new - only for imitating what happened before.
Quote from: "uncloned"It is unlikely you'd sound like me (or those others) unless you wre real intentional in doing so because everyone's style is a matter of choices - and you'd have to make all of the same choices I (or those others) would in a given situation.
From my point of view the only way to sound like you or the others is learning to play a real guitar and not just playing around with this simulated stuff. But I think I'm now to old to learn how to play an instrument and I lack the time for it unfortunately...
oh man, I disagree
this dude can program VSTi to sound like real music players all of the time
Fabio Napodano
to modules
show details 11:04 AM (56 minutes ago)
a new song by me has just been released; it is a jazz song called "A Persuasive Wait".
Enjoy, and imagine..
OGG: http://www.renoise.com/songs/cntdl.php?si=1307&dt=2&ln=napodano.com/music/download.php?Id=1141
MP3:
http://www.napodano.com/music/download.php?Id=2141
I know him a bit - (we go back to the Usenet module days) - it is detail, detail, detail. He is obsessive with it but gets incredible results.
Great work, Mr.Eagle!
Enjoyed every moment of it. Not a single boring part, haven't been bothered by non-realistic guitars (there were any?) too.
How you ever manage to make >3 min songs, would you share a secret? :D
Hi & welcome back to life,
Mr. Noth. It has been a while since you've been seen here... :wink:
Thank you for listen & liking the song.
QuoteHow you ever manage to make >3 min songs, would you share a secret?
[whispering] Pssst....Yes, I will: It's a simple trick. Each part for itself is not enough for a song, so I simply put them together and -voila- an over 7 minutes song is finished....
But..pssst...please do not tell the others....[/whispering] :D
Actually I've been busy with real life and drinking :D Downloaded your track long ago, but listened only yesterday.
And that secret, gotta write it down before it will be long forgotten :lol:
Cool song. The guitar entrance was really neat. The guitar sounds very realistic.
Thank you for your comment,
mrvegas.
QuoteThe guitar sounds very realistic.
Umm, yes, I agree (especially compared to my old sample-only songs like this. (https://www.qdrive.net/download/sharelinkdownloader.php?id=67707&key=2rdJ1AnPxOhF5MgX4CmX5AqP2GdN9MqD6rh)). But unfortunately some other members here see it different...
BTW. The link in your signature doesn't seem to work.
for the record I am only saying that
Quote"I think including bends and vibrato in the guitar lead part would help liven it up a bit. "
which is different than saying it sounds unrealistic. It certainly DOES sound realistic to me in the sense that I CAN play your leads exactly as you've presented them on my guitar without a problem - so... yes they are realistic.
Your question was
how to add more expressiveness to you work - and I've tried to support that request (to no avail?)
And it was unfortunate that I used the term "realism" and "imitate" here:
Quoteyou have a choice - Nothing is ever wrong, really - having a non-vibrato guitar lead could be considered a stylistic marker for you
or
you can go for realism - and where you stop is up to you - If you want to imitate my leads I think that bends and vibratos are the minimum
But, as I said, the composition is excellent, so it really is a composer choice, not necessity.
All I was doing was trying to answer this
QuoteI have to say, that I'm not a guitar player. I never learned to play an instrument, so what I mentioned above is just 'guessing' but not 'knowing'.
Maybe Mr Uncloned, as a guitar-player, could explain that further...
Which you said after
QuoteAnd I think I know what you mean when you say the lead guitar sounds 'dead'.
When a real guitar player plays a melody again and again, it will never sound always the same. There are always slight variations in playing. I think, the reason for this is, that the player never hit the guitar strings at -exactly- the same point. And this is what I would call "soulful" or "emotional" playing.
And these slight variations that makes the difference between 'vital' or 'dead' guitars-sound cannot be simulated by a vsti. Or better: I never heard about a vsti, that could do this...
I never meant you try to copy my lead style
As I said earlier
Quote
But, as I said, the composition is excellent, so it really is a composer choice, not necessity
Hmm. I think there is confusion and some misunderstandings in this topic.
I understood the essence this way:
less expressiveness = more artificial = not realistic/natural
And I think at least
Mr. Noth understood it the same way:
Quote...haven't been bothered by non-realistic guitars (there were any?)...
QuoteYour question was how to add more expressiveness to you work - and I've tried to support that request (to no avail?)
If it had been in vain, I would not have engaged with the param-contol-notes (http://forum.openmpt.org/index.php?topic=3650.0), and I would not have downloaded your guitar-samples in order to do some experiments with them...
QuoteAnd it was unfortunate that I used the term "realism" and "imitate"
Yes, indeed. I have to confess that the term "imitate" made me upset, because it sounded like "plagiarism" to me. It was another misunderstanding.
QuoteI never meant you try to copy my lead style
Well, finally I learned that the "language-barrier" is much higher than I first thought. So, I think it would be better for me to abstain in future discussions...
No harm meant,
Mr. Unlconed!
abstain from future conversations?
what did I do?
I am so thoroughly confused, I was only trying to help.
Quote from: "uncloned"what did I do?
You did nothing wrong. I did! When I registered here I thought I could handle being a member of an English-speaking community without embarrassing myself. Now I think that this was a misjudgement.
Quote from: "uncloned"I was only trying to help.
I know! And I really appreciate it....
after reviewing this chain of posts:
Perhaps it would have been best to stand your ground with AppleJoe and stated that the guitar sounds like you want it. There is nothing wrong with that. You are the composer so the freedom is yours to chose.
I had no idea you grabbed my samples or listened to the example modules - somehow I missed your post acknowledging receipt of them.
Quote from: "uncloned"I had no idea you grabbed my samples or listened to the example modules - somehow I missed your post acknowledging receipt of them.
I simply forgot to do so. My mistake....sorry....