Quote from: "LPChip"Quote from: "fluor"how about an option for including VST instruments etc INSIDE the file format? this way I can archive my songs correctly instead of missing instruments when I dig up the files 4 years after.
Unfortunatelly, its not possible to include VST or VSTi's inside a song due to the nature on how they're installed.
You can zip your .IT file together with the plugins so you know which plugins you used for that song if you decide to play your tune after 4 years, but an automated add system simply is impossible. Also it would be very unwise to do that, because some plugins cannot be distributed like that, especially the commercial plugins that have a huge library of >3 gig. You would then be adding the entire library and spreading an illegal VSTi to others where you might have a licensekey, but others haven't.
Really, this issue has been brought up a few times now, and it just is impossible.
How about shipping Modplug with a few standard free plugins? Reverb, compressor and some VSTs?
This would target the first time users. Also include a track that use these VSTS. I would happily help you out with a track if you need one.
Can you provide permission from the VST-makers?
Shouldn't be too complicated for some of the popular plugins, as I've already got permission to host a few 3rd party plugins on my website already. I think the same should be doable for MPT.
re: including plugins
this is an excellent idea
Is it even allowed to host compiled files on sourceforge?
I mean, we do want to put it in a package downloadable from sourceforge right?
The same problem already exists with unmo3. I don't mind hosting a special version on my servers, but then you always have the with and without packages, creating more work.
It might be better to create a plugin package as "best free choice from modplug" package, and put those in there.
I would be more than happy to host and keep up with the upkeep to host the files if that is what is needed.
It's not as if we didn't break that rule already, if there was one. Also, we want to get rid of sourceforge anyway.
1. obtain a set of free vst's. 2-3 should be enough
2. host a small competition and compile a set of tunes.
3. create a first run splash on modplug where new users are getting a link they can click for downloading a DEMO package intended for new users. The demo package includes a small installer that creates a directory for VST and inserts the VST's there. Editing config for plugins, songdir (demo dir) and such.
Or.. A registry variable is set, telling Modplug that it should add the VSTs from the installdir the next time it's started.
No registry flag will be set and no installer will be used. Those two things must be the things that I hate most about programs. Using installers where no installers are needed and writing to the registry.
We had a compo with 2 samples and only the DX plugins lately, those tunes could be used in theory, although the best of them are a bit too cpu-hungry.
I suggest something simple for a demo - at least one.
How about organising a simple competition with an ordenairy samplepack? The best gets included with OpenMPT? We can do that a few times with different samplepacks to get a variety of songs to ship with OpenMPT.
Or even better: Competition: Make a song with just samples you made your own, no plugins at all. Max filesize is 500 kb. Top 3 gets their song shipped with OpenMPT.
i guess new composers nowadays are not interested in tracked music like in the amiga days. to attract new audience, you need to provide professional sound. not much is needed to do so using vst. you do not need a new user intro for existing trackers out there, they already know their stuff.
How could you not be interested in tracked music if you are using a tracker?
Also: 500kb per song is too big for my taste. Just look at aryx, it sounds awesome and is just 20kb.
I see a lot of trackers here, but you forget that some use Modplug for professional music, adding vocal and VST effects all in the same program. These people don't care if the *.mptm file takes 20GB, as long as it can produce music for 3-4 minutes, giving another track on a new album.
Is "vocals" your definition of professional music? It's not mine, at least. And I do also use MPT for "bigger" projects, mind you. Still, this is not a justification for including 10mb of demo songs when the program itself is about 1 megabyte in size. You oversee that demosongs are mostly for beginners, and I doubt that anyone starts with MPT as a "professional". Those have to climb up a long ladder, and once they're up there, they don't care about demo songs anymore, so they don't have to be super big for them as well. They will maybe rather be surprised what kind of kick-ass music you can get out of a few kilobytes. Listen to this (http://scene.org/file.php?file=%2Fparties%2F2009%2Fevoke09%2Ftinymusic%2Fmod.house_my_kolsch_up.mod.zip&fileinfo), for example. It is made by a "professional" who still (again) uses ProTracker (!!!) for his live-sets. And they do kick ass, I've heard it myself. You don't need gigabytes of samples for professional music, you can get awesome sound out of a few kbytes as well.
Currently the OpenMPT package is quite plain: no samples, no VSTs, no tutorial or help files and not even an example mod. Can't say it's a surprise if a newcomer has severe problems to get started. But I don't think it's a good idea to create one huge package with everything included but instead have a separate package for these. This could have samples(preferably public domain?), VSTs and example mods of different styles from small demo style modules to module using VSTs.
If I recall correctly, including VST was planned earlier as well but then faded away because no one would do the work involved.
To jojo: I only gave a max 500kb limit to have a max. Sure, I can make great music in under 20kb. Hence, I made a 1kb tune twice that was good XD
But I agree with Relabs too. We should have a plain version package for sure, and possibly offer different "example" packages for the user to examine.
Maybe I can find a way to let php create zip packages based on a link. We just upload the packages seperatelly but php creates the packages for us. I'm sure that must be possible one way or the other!
I'll look into that.
LPChip: 100kb max per song sounds reasonable for me. Maybe 200.
Well there was this MPT release with the mda plugins once...
A good "beginners" package would maybe include mda series, kjaerhus classic series, freeverb, electri-q, maybe some more stuff from smartelectronix guys and maybe some other small plugins.
well... I know these VSTs like to go in a steinberg named folder but...
can't we have a default folder created with the VSTs that is created when OMPT unzips and is in the configuration file with a read me notice on how to point somewhere else if need be?
Some installers look for a Wavelab / Cubase VST folder, but you don't do anything about that. And SmartElectronix plugins normally come without installation, or we could of course ask if we can distribute "raw" versions of the plugin packages.
Hm. The usual mistake : defining 'professionalism' an equivalent for having lots of expensive equipment,
chasing high quality audio, or having a fancy set of VST's..
QuoteNo registry flag will be set and no installer will be used.
Hurray !
I think it's better to keep the basic package as about as small as it is, and make seperate packs of add-ons, like VST, samples, or demosongs
As far as samples are concerned, I saved an old starter-kit
here (http://www.louigiverona.com/webarchive/samzen/modz/starter.7z)