in modplugtracker to create multisample instruments out of vsti instruments?
an automated process to save power on using vsti synths?
2 other questions,
why is the instrument limit only 255?
and how about a automated process to create multisample instruments out of instruments that have long fx chains? (again to save power, pretty much sucks only being able to use about 70 vsts at once (lot less if big ones.)
Quote from: sso on September 24, 2012, 16:37:08
an automated process to save power on using vsti synths?
Well, if it was as easy as you make it sound, it would have been done already. There used to be a tool called VDumper, its Website has disappeard but you might still be able to track it down somewhere. If not, I might have it on a Computer Music Special DVD somewhere... This tool basically does what you want.
Quotewhy is the instrument limit only 255?
Because an 8-bit number can only hold as much as 256 different value. And the instrument column (like all other columns) is 8-bit. This might be improved with future revisions of the MPTM format, but I cannot promise anything regarding when and how, and it certainly will never be possible to use more instruments in XM and IT.
Quote from: sso on September 24, 2012, 16:37:08and how about a automated process to create multisample instruments out of instruments that have long fx chains? (again to save power, pretty much sucks only being able to use about 70 vsts at once (lot less if big ones.)
I have to say that if you are using 70 plugins at once, you certainly must be doing something wrong. That's way too much stuff going on there. Let me tell you that as a rough rule of thumb, the more plugins you use, the worse your sound will get, not better.
Quote from: Saga Musix on September 24, 2012, 20:02:21
Quote from: sso on September 24, 2012, 16:37:08
an automated process to save power on using vsti synths?
Well, if it was as easy as you make it sound, it would have been done already. There used to be a tool called VDumper, its Website has disappeard but you might still be able to track it down somewhere. If not, I might have it on a Computer Music Special DVD somewhere... This tool basically does what you want.
thanks, i did find it online, though the link for download does not seem to be working.. :( http://www.kvraudio.com/product/vdumper_by_cct
maybe its only momentarily.
Quote from: Saga Musix on September 24, 2012, 20:02:21Quotewhy is the instrument limit only 255?
Because an 8-bit number can only hold as much as 256 different value. And the instrument column (like all other columns) is 8-bit. This might be improved with future revisions of the MPTM format, but I cannot promise anything regarding when and how, and it certainly will never be possible to use more instruments in XM and IT.
well, i do not have any nostalgia for the xm and it, onward to the future i say. :)
Quote from: Saga Musix on September 24, 2012, 20:02:21Quote from: sso on September 24, 2012, 16:37:08and how about a automated process to create multisample instruments out of instruments that have long fx chains? (again to save power, pretty much sucks only being able to use about 70 vsts at once (lot less if big ones.)
I have to say that if you are using 70 plugins at once, you certainly must be doing something wrong. That's way too much stuff going on there. Let me tell you that as a rough rule of thumb, the more plugins you use, the worse your sound will get, not better.
well..
i cant sample to wav and then use the stems like in other daws. but id say that is a matter of taste, but generally i tend to use a few fx per instrument.
maybe some distortion, reverb, some compression or whatnot.
i add on fx, till i get the sound i like.
though id say, that generally you are right, took me awhile to "master" this, but i like the sound and i can only write to my tastes. :)
and, though i sometimes fx the samples and save them as wavs and then use, i find i like the sound better othervise in most cases.
its a bit of a juggle, but only in my largest songs.
btw, did i come off as if i were complaining?
i really like writing on trackers over any other daw´s and modplug tracker is the best tracker ive found.
im more wondering if some things are to be added or if not, why not.
wondering now, if working with stems would be incorporated in modplug, ive always found the sideways keyboard editor in other daws, rather ridiculous and cumbersome.
thanks alot, btw, to anyone part of programming modplug tracker. :)
and im not demanding anything btw lol, that would be rather ridiculous. im really pleased with the effort that has been put into this, made many of my days much more pleasurable than they would have been othervise
oh hey? why are sidechain compressors so hard to use with modplug tracker? i found some instructions on this site, but couldnt get it to work. (im not a very technical guy though. :((im ok, just not a programmer.)).
Edit by mod: Fixed BBCode (that's not how quotes work)
humm , why would you say the sound gets worse if i use too many vst´s at once?
some technical reason or just hard to adjust the settings right with so many at once? or?
that vdumper website´s link is faulty and i just found a forum and post from 2006 that says that the link is faulty back then as well. lol.
only found directwave instead, not free though.
if you could supply a link for the vdumper, that would be great. :) (Edit, i found a link that works, thanks anyway man.Edit again, too hasty, other two links not working. lol)
Quote from: sso on September 25, 2012, 00:36:41
btw, did i come off as if i were complaining?
i really like writing on trackers over any other daw´s and modplug tracker is the best tracker ive found.
im more wondering if some things are to be added or if not, why not.
As a (mostly) lone developer I don't even have the time to implement all the features
I want, so time is a very good reason to deny any request.
Quote from: sso on September 25, 2012, 00:36:41oh hey? why are sidechain compressors so hard to use with modplug tracker?
Because OpenMPT doesn't have a sidechain (aka bus). There is no way how a traditional sidechain compressor can work in OpenMPT, except for those that explicitely circumvent this problem through inter-process communication (like SideKick).
Quote from: sso on September 25, 2012, 00:36:41humm , why would you say the sound gets worse if i use too many vst´s at once?
It will both technically degraded and through the user's choices - as a very simple to understand but probably not very accurate example in the real world, imagine copying a song from one audio cassette to another a hundred times - it will sound muddier every time. Same is true with plugins, people who put dozens of plugins on every track usually just produce yet another muddy track.
Quote from: sso on September 25, 2012, 00:36:41Edit, i found a link that works, thanks anyway man.Edit again, too hasty, other two links not working. lol)
Maybe you should share that link with the rest of the world then, just so that not everyone else will have to make the same search again and again.
Quote from: Saga Musix on September 25, 2012, 01:04:24
Quote from: sso on September 25, 2012, 00:36:41
btw, did i come off as if i were complaining?
i really like writing on trackers over any other daw´s and modplug tracker is the best tracker ive found.
im more wondering if some things are to be added or if not, why not.
As a (mostly) lone developer I don't even have the time to implement all the features I want, so time is a very good reason to deny any request.
well, thanks for all the great work, too bad i cant help ya, but i suck at math and programming. :)
anything noteworthy up for developement?
Quote from: Saga Musix on September 25, 2012, 01:04:24
Quote from: sso on September 25, 2012, 00:36:41oh hey? why are sidechain compressors so hard to use with modplug tracker?
Because OpenMPT doesn't have a sidechain (aka bus). There is no way how a traditional sidechain compressor can work in OpenMPT, except for those that explicitely circumvent this problem through inter-process communication (like SideKick).
you ever intending to include a bus? (oh i suppose one could just make stems from the song and use some other daw.)
didnt get that sidekick to work myself.
Quote from: Saga Musix on September 25, 2012, 01:04:24Quote from: sso on September 25, 2012, 00:36:41humm , why would you say the sound gets worse if i use too many vst´s at once?
It will both technically degraded and through the user's choices - as a very simple to understand but probably not very accurate example in the real world, imagine copying a song from one audio cassette to another a hundred times - it will sound muddier every time. Same is true with plugins, people who put dozens of plugins on every track usually just produce yet another muddy track.
ok?
interesting, i have been really pleased with the sound im getting lately, (typical chain effect, lets say, northpole-amplitube-vogengobox-some reverb-ozone4-and then maybe something more, i add an vst to get a certain something from the sound and then i use eq´s to make it fit together and remove the muddy and sometimes a compressor to boot, i dont remember getting muddy sound unless some frequencies of various samples were conflicting too much.)
not quite getting why this should happen, since its not like photocopy of a photocopy, since it should be able to reproduce the exact same results everytime.
and , why wouldnt the same happen when you use vst´s to modify samples?
Quote from: Saga Musix on September 25, 2012, 01:04:24Quote from: sso on September 25, 2012, 00:36:41Edit, i found a link that works, thanks anyway man.Edit again, too hasty, other two links not working. lol)
Maybe you should share that link with the rest of the world then, just so that not everyone else will have to make the same search again and again.
yah, that would be great, but as i said in the last edit which you mustave missed, the other two links were not working. :(
would be great to have that vst though.
so, by the tone of the first reply, im guessing you have a lot of people complaining and demanding things? lol
Please open and close your quotes properly next time, underlined, italic and bold text is very annoying to read. I fixed it for you (again).
Quoteanything noteworthy up for developement?
Nothing that would be finished in the near future.
Quoteyou ever intending to include a bus? (oh i suppose one could just make stems from the song and use some other daw.)
Look at the Release Notes (http://openmpt.org/release_notes/OMPT_1.20_ReleaseNotes.html) (Known Issues section).
In short: Yes, the intention has been there... since the first release of OpenMPT probably.
Quotedidnt get that sidekick to work myself.
You might be missing a file (http://forum.openmpt.org/index.php?topic=4790.msg38574#msg38574).
Quotenorthpole-amplitube-vogengobox-some reverb-ozone4-and then maybe something more
Especially with OpenMPT (which doesn't have plugin delay compensation), this method is very prone to out-of-sync channels, because each of these chains is almost certain to introduce a delay in the signal which is different from another channel's delay.
Quotenot quite getting why this should happen, since its not like photocopy of a photocopy, since it should be able to reproduce the exact same results everytime.
Yes, the copy thing is probably not the best comparison, but it doesn't have to be a straight copy, it's just the more you process the signal, the more quality you might lose (strongly depends on the effects and their quality, of couse).
Quoteand , why wouldnt the same happen when you use vst´s to modify samples?
Of couse it applies to any effect chain.
Quoteso, by the tone of the first reply, im guessing you have a lot of people complaining and demanding things? lol
more than zero at least (which would be the optimal amount).
I'll try to upload vdumper once I have a DVD drive in my Laptop again (right now I can't put it into the Laptop as there's a hard disk in the slot which is currenlty in use :P).
Quote from: Saga Musix on September 25, 2012, 14:08:25
Please open and close your quotes properly next time, underlined, italic and bold text is very annoying to read. I fixed it for you (again).
thanks.
QuoteYou might be missing a file (http://forum.openmpt.org/index.php?topic=4790.msg38574#msg38574).
what location is that file supposed to be in? (i have it, but im unsure of the proper location, im on windows 7.)
QuoteEspecially with OpenMPT (which doesn't have plugin delay compensation), this method is very prone to out-of-sync channels, because each of these chains is almost certain to introduce a delay in the signal which is different from another channel's delay.
i havent noticed it,maybe i just like the sound and adjust for it unknowingly lol, i do have a top of the line intel though.
Quote
Yes, the copy thing is probably not the best comparison, but it doesn't have to be a straight copy, it's just the more you process the signal, the more quality you might lose (strongly depends on the effects and their quality, of couse).
would also depend on the original sound and what your are going for. and i only use vst´s i really like or find useful in getting the sound i want. but yeah, i see your point.
Quotemore than zero at least (which would be the optimal amount).
I'll try to upload vdumper once I have a DVD drive in my Laptop again (right now I can't put it into the Laptop as there's a hard disk in the slot which is currenlty in use :P).
hmm, well, anyone coming in with demands and angry complaints about something they got for free, is a bit of an idiot. (and not even a nice idiot.)
not sure, if id even bother with answering such. (aint got all the time in the world and i like to do things that make me happy, acquiescing to the demands of bad idiots, just brings more bad idiots to the door.) (while i on the other hand consider good people the basis for a good life, keeping those happy, is a whole thing different, though even then , i gotta be happy too you know ;) (as happy people make me happy, me happy makes other people happy.)
but thanks for the vdumper, i appreciate it. whenever you have the time is more than fine. have a good day man.
oh and sorry for the terrible writing style, i see you are the type to notice that and be bothered by it, but im just to tired to make a huge effort. (sick 15 years or so, mostly just dead tired these days but getting better so doont worrry aboot it. :D)
Quotewhat location is that file supposed to be in? (i have it, but im unsure of the proper location, im on windows 7.)
Putting it in the same location as the plugin should be enough, if I recall correctly. Otherwise you might have to put it in System32 and run regsvr32 to register the DLL file.
Quotei do have a top of the line intel though.
Uhm, it's not processing power (or the lack of) which introduced plugin delays, it's the algorithms themselves. For example a FFT-based algorithm always needs a certain amount of samples as an input before it can produce any output; Most typically this introduces a delay of at least 512 samples for FFT effects, which means that all other tracks would have to be delayed by 512 samples as well so that they are still in sync (or the FFT-processed channel would lag behind, which it would in fact do in OpenMPT). You cannot make up for such algorithm-introduced delays by processing power.
Quoteoh and sorry for the terrible writing style, i see you are the type to notice that and be bothered by it, but im just to tired to make a huge effort.
Please just use the preview button next time when writing a new post... It's very hard finding out which part of the post I am supposed to read and which part is what I have written before. Basically all the time you save for yourself by not doing it has to be invested by to fix the post in return.
Also, I have attached VDumper (from the Computer Music Freeware Essential Selection 2010) to this post; I haven't tried it much and it seems far from finished, but it might do the job for you.
Quote from: Saga Musix on September 25, 2012, 22:08:48
Quote
Putting it in the same location as the plugin should be enough, if I recall correctly. Otherwise you might have to put it in System32 and run regsvr32 to register the DLL file.
jeez, i used to do dos back in the day, but i cant find where to run files with commands in win7. lol , ive become a dinosaur. (oh ill google it. :))
Quote
Uhm, it's not processing power (or the lack of) which introduced plugin delays, it's the algorithms themselves. For example a FFT-based algorithm always needs a certain amount of samples as an input before it can produce any output; Most typically this introduces a delay of at least 512 samples for FFT effects, which means that all other tracks would have to be delayed by 512 samples as well so that they are still in sync (or the FFT-processed channel would lag behind, which it would in fact do in OpenMPT). You cannot make up for such algorithm-introduced delays by processing power.
yes, i thought i got a rather small boost considering my new computer is at least 10 times faster than the last one, how much memory can i access with modplug btw?
still, i dont seem to notice that delay, sure i get a bad click if i use too many effects, but up until that happens i notice nothing, maybe because im using effects on basically everything.
QuotePlease just use the preview button next time when writing a new post... It's very hard finding out which part of the post I am supposed to read and which part is what I have written before. Basically all the time you save for yourself by not doing it has to be invested by to fix the post in return.
its not ok now? (been a few forums and this is the first time ive heard this complaint. :))
QuoteAlso, I have attached VDumper (from the Computer Music Freeware Essential Selection 2010) to this post; I haven't tried it much and it seems far from finished, but it might do the job for you.
thanks pal. :)
oh darn, been googling and i had that file msvcp71.dll and the other one, in the right place and allready installed and all. (apparently i did it last year for something else and forgot.)
bah, maybe i just need to do some more fidgeting to get it to work in modplug.
on the bright side, im getting really good at eq and compression to make the bass and kick fit together .:) not the muddy mess it used to be lol
For vsti sampling try Highlife sampler http://www.discodsp.com/highlife/ (http://www.discodsp.com/highlife/). Windows version is free ;)
Quotehow much memory can i access with modplug btw?
As a 32-Bit application, up to 4 GiB i guess. More memory might be available by using a plugin bridge like JBridge.
Quotebah, maybe i just need to do some more fidgeting to get it to work in modplug.
Which version of SideKick are you using? I have only use v3, and it seemed to work when installing the required DLL. You might download Dependency Walker to check if any other libraries are missing on your system, but I think I used the plugin on a fairly clean Win7 install and the only thing that was missing was the VC++7.1 runtime.
Quote from: Saga Musix on September 26, 2012, 22:18:10
Quotehow much memory can i access with modplug btw?
As a 32-Bit application, up to 4 GiB i guess.
Make that ~3gb, coz if im not mistaken, win32 cannot address more than 3gb to a single 32bit application. Win32 being able to address around 4gb altogether is another story.
Quote from: herodotas on September 26, 2012, 18:02:00
For vsti sampling try Highlife sampler http://www.discodsp.com/highlife/ (http://www.discodsp.com/highlife/). Windows version is free ;)
thanks pal. :)
Quote from: Saga Musix on September 26, 2012, 22:18:10
As a 32-Bit application, up to 4 GiB i guess. More memory might be available by using a plugin bridge like JBridge.
Which version of SideKick are you using? I have only use v3, and it seemed to work when installing the required DLL. You might download Dependency Walker to check if any other libraries are missing on your system, but I think I used the plugin on a fairly clean Win7 install and the only thing that was missing was the VC++7.1 runtime.
thanks for the jbridge tip.
im using v3 of sidekick. seemed to work? yes, forgot to mention, it seemed to work fine as a compressor, not hearing any actual sidechaining, might be sidechaining wrong i suppose, i did watch a few tutorials, but not specifically for the sidekick..
dependency walker eh? thanks. :)
lol..what an embarassing story.
i just tested a ripped fl studio,
it installed asio4all,
which stuttered like crazy on modplugtracker and made the creative asio, not work. (which works perfectly with lots of vst´s, while asio4all does not.)
after a long process of installing and uninstalling and deleting this and that. (including asio4all and studio fl.the creative sounddrivers (audigy4))
i get the creative asio to work. (After reinstalling modplugtracker clean.)
but now the song stutters, even at best (version 02) it scratches. (i tested versions 20.01, 20.02, 20.03.)
modplug tracker requires me to use quad, everything else just does not work. (or fucked up sound.)
and it stutters in songs it did not previous to all this.
its better in 02 (Same version i was running before this happened, i had not upgraded to 03)
but still stutters about a second apart (more like a scratchy fart really, though its actually a stutter, just too fast to click.)
any ideas?
only thing i can think of left is reinstalling windows, and id rather not do that lol. (i had misgivings about installing that fl studio and now i know why, damn me not listening to myself. :) turns out i didnt even like using it lol)
would be really great if you could help this poor fool, lol this sucks. (kicking myself in the head now if i had the required martial arts expertise.)
only asking really, cause its a rather weird problem.
Edit. songs with alot less vst effects work with the creative asio driver, but only for awhile, soon , the sound gets jerky, when i put on the primary driver and back to the creative asio driver, it works, again till i hit the play button after stopping, then the sound got really scratchy, played only on the left side too after awhile. this is in version 02.
edit : oh by the way, this is made with lots of vst´s (about 60 at the same time.) in modplugtracker. http://soundcloud.com/svenniola/svenni-ola-o-sole-mi (Svenni ola is another alias i go by.)
can you hear the delays you were talking about?
oh, here too, http://www.netsagas.com/music/ another example, the song "smooth smoocher" probably the best example of the 3, it had alot too.
Quote from: sso on September 27, 2012, 02:40:12
im using v3 of sidekick. seemed to work? yes, forgot to mention, it seemed to work fine as a compressor, not hearing any actual sidechaining, might be sidechaining wrong i suppose, i did watch a few tutorials, but not specifically for the sidekick..
Uhm, either it sidechain-compresses your audio or it doesn't. SideKick doesn't apply any compression unless it receives audio from the sidechain.
You'll need a "Send" (for the kick drum) and a "Receive" (for the stuff that is supposed to be compressed) instance of the plugin. Every instance is assigned to a greek letter, so if your "Send" instance is alpha, you'll need to set up your "Receive" instance to use the virtual alpha channel and select "ducking" to get the typical pumping sidechain compresseion effect.
Regarding your ASIO issue, I can assure you that none of the mixing or ASIO code was changed between the last few versions, so sure this is only a placebo effect. You should probably increase the sound buffer length if you get stuttering audio.
Quotei just tested a ripped fl studio
Well, of course it's also possible that this installed some shit on your system which constantly takes away some processing time and thus OpenMPT doesn't get as much CPU time as it would need.
Quotemodplug tracker requires me to use quad, everything else just does not work.
Uh wtf, Quad means 4-channel audio! Quad is of no use unless you have a four speaker setup and just increases processing time. And plugins only have access to OpenMPT's front channels anyway.
Quoteedit : oh by the way, this is made with lots of vst´s (about 60 at the same time.) in modplugtracker.
I can't really hear why you'd need 60 plugins for that. There are no noticeable delays, but the overall mix sounds very muddy to me, I think it's drowning in reverb or something.
Quote from: Saga Musix on September 27, 2012, 12:49:01
Uhm, either it sidechain-compresses your audio or it doesn't. SideKick doesn't apply any compression unless it receives audio from the sidechain.
You'll need a "Send" (for the kick drum) and a "Receive" (for the stuff that is supposed to be compressed) instance of the plugin. Every instance is assigned to a greek letter, so if your "Send" instance is alpha, you'll need to set up your "Receive" instance to use the virtual alpha channel and select "ducking" to get the typical pumping sidechain compresseion effect.
Regarding your ASIO issue, I can assure you that none of the mixing or ASIO code was changed between the last few versions, so sure this is only a placebo effect. You should probably increase the sound buffer length if you get stuttering audio.
Quote
Well, of course it's also possible that this installed some shit on your system which constantly takes away some processing time and thus OpenMPT doesn't get as much CPU time as it would need.
it more sounds like its some shit that specifically attacks the asio. but yeah, i was kinda hoping you´d think of something else than some "shit." which i was afraid it was. ive never seen modplugtracker take up all the cpu of the system im on now, usually its at 15% or something like that, think i saw it once go up to 50% often im using all the memory though. its at 0% now browsing the internet.modplug tracker requires me to use quad, everything else just does not work.
QuoteUh wtf, Quad means 4-channel audio! Quad is of no use unless you have a four speaker setup and just increases processing time. And plugins only have access to OpenMPT's front channels anyway.
[/quote]
yes wtf indeed, hope ill be able to find some info through google, weird shit indeed.
this only happened after that flstudio/asio4all debacle. stereo 32 bit before that.
QuoteI can't really hear why you'd need 60 plugins for that. There are no noticeable delays, but the overall mix sounds very muddy to me, I think it's drowning in reverb or something.
hmm, kinda liking the sound of that mix myself , but its a matter of taste, its a valhallashimmer effect thats going on.
also that song was not properly eq´d, there is too much going on in the 120-300 hz. drowns out the higher frequencies somewhat. its a learning process lol, some of my later songs (not ready.) ive been getting a much clearer sound.
lol, weird, i found a temp file cleaner (it was supposed to remove another virus that came with some other fl studio torrent, though i did not have that specific virus.)
and after having used it.
songs work again in 32bit stereo and dont click.
except for my latest song, (the only thing i did different with it, was i accidentally saved it with 03 version and am now running it on 02.)
in that song, the sound does not play, despite the samples being there.
guess im installing 03 again. :)
yeah, this is weird.
still 02, but its kinda the same problem, though better.
after awhile, everytime i hit play, within a pattern, the sound gets all clicky and draggy (and goes kinda mono, left side.)
it fixes when i press stop a few times (unlike yesterday, when it just went more and more fucked up.)
computer is at 7% processor usage and i have 2gb left of memory.
lol, what a day.
edit: well, it seems to be mostly fine now, havent seen this in awhile, even put the buffer down to 20ms and its fine (used to always have it at 50ms)
on another note, the muddiness and delay you say comes with using many fx at once, im not quite getting that, since modplugtracker is triggering the fx anew everytime i put in another note, i do not use loops btw, so how could it be getting muddier and more delayed, if the notes themselves as played through mpt are getting "renewed"?
not seeing it, unless the fx themselves were retaining some ghost of former "playings"?
so according to that, you´d get at most a slight delay effect in each instance of playing a note?
edit : now suddenly the song only plays in either left or right channel, after having been fine for hours, stop it, left, stop again, right and faded sound. weird, been tracking for a long time, never seen that (or really had any troubles lol)
Sorry but your problem description is rather esoteric, I cannot really help you with that - "goes kinda mono, left side" is for example something that OpenMPT would never do by itself just because it is starving from CPU. Also OpenMPT "suddenly" working with Stereo output again or song just playing on one might rather have something to do with ASIO4All or your other ASIO driver being busy - or your audio cables are broken? :P
Regarding the muddiness, I didn't claim it has anything to do with plugin delays. I think the tune is just slightly drowning in reverb. But that's something about mixing techniques which doesn't belong in this thread (I kind of dislike how it's already getting a "putting all questions into one thread" thing, it just makes everything more confusing than it already is).
Quoteso according to that, you´d get at most a slight delay effect in each instance of playing a note?
For a fitting definition of "slight", yes. I don't know what plugins you use so I don't know if they introduce a delay, and if they do how long this delay is.
QuoteQuote from: Saga Musix on September 28, 2012, 01:03:05
Sorry but your problem description is rather esoteric, I cannot really help you with that - "goes kinda mono, left side" is for example something that OpenMPT would never do by itself just because it is starving from CPU. Also OpenMPT "suddenly" working with Stereo output again or song just playing on one might rather have something to do with ASIO4All or your other ASIO driver being busy - or your audio cables are broken? :P
yeah, it was a very slight hope. :) im thinking it to be easiest just to reinstall windows. there are probably still some files there fucking with the asio.
weird stuff, works for a while, but stopping and replaying or playing some note, starts the computer stuttering and something switching stereosides.
definetly not the cables.
QuoteRegarding the muddiness, I didn't claim it has anything to do with plugin delays. I think the tune is just slightly drowning in reverb. But that's something about mixing techniques which doesn't belong in this thread (I kind of dislike how it's already getting a "putting all questions into one thread" thing, it just makes everything more confusing than it already is).
lol, yes, we are going all over, i might ask your opinion in another thread on my latest stuff and the mixing technique if that would be allright, its always great to get another ear and one that knows what its doing. :)
Quoteso according to that, you´d get at most a slight delay effect in each instance of playing a note?
For a fitting definition of "slight", yes. I don't know what plugins you use so I don't know if they introduce a delay, and if they do how long this delay is.
well, im not hearing anything, i agree on the muddled though, i use alot of instruments and im working on fitting the bottom end of the frequencies together, though personally i like a bit of mud sometimes.
Quote from: Saga Musix on September 24, 2012, 20:02:21Quote from: sso on September 24, 2012, 16:37:08and how about a automated process to create multisample instruments out of instruments that have long fx chains? (again to save power, pretty much sucks only being able to use about 70 vsts at once (lot less if big ones.)
I have to say that if you are using 70 plugins at once, you certainly must be doing something wrong. That's way too much stuff going on there. Let me tell you that as a rough rule of thumb, the more plugins you use, the worse your sound will get, not better.
I can think of only 3 reasons why you would be using 70 VSTs in a single track:
1. You don't want any one timbre to stand out, in the same way orchestral instruments blend together to form a single sound;
2. You don't know how to optimize your timbres to use as little FX as possible even for a lot of different timbres/instruments; OR
3. A lot of the VSTi's are used for "one shots" -- quick notes that only play a short sequence then aren't heard any more.
#1 is certainly legitimate, but i would suggest routing them thru a single plugin wrapper like Chainer to better control the sound and FX.
#2 means that you 're unaware of what your listener will hear when it's played. Except for VERY special effect, you don't need more than a 2 delay/reverb FX, and 2 flanging/chorusing FX (unless you're using different settings at different times in the track, in which case you can change those settings with PC notes or Zxx macros, which see), plus whatever instrument-specific VST FX you're applying. The human ear can only pick up a limited number of reverb and chorus levels. But i can't see how you can work up to SEVENTY VSTs even for a big track.
Concerning #3, if you're using a lot of oneshots, i would suggest transferring the notes to samples and use those instead of loading the plugin. It will save on load time and MAY reduce the overall memory footprint of the track, esp. if you call them more than once in the track.
You must have a helluva system to handle 70 all at once. I bet if a loaded 70 VSTs in a track, and called C-5 to activate all of them at once, i wonder if they'd lock up my 2 Ghz machine! :P
Quote from: Harbinger on September 28, 2012, 21:13:43
Quote from: Saga Musix on September 24, 2012, 20:02:21Quote from: sso on September 24, 2012, 16:37:08and how about a automated process to create multisample instruments out of instruments that have long fx chains? (again to save power, pretty much sucks only being able to use about 70 vsts at once (lot less if big ones.)
I have to say that if you are using 70 plugins at once, you certainly must be doing something wrong. That's way too much stuff going on there. Let me tell you that as a rough rule of thumb, the more plugins you use, the worse your sound will get, not better.
I can think of only 3 reasons why you would be using 70 VSTs in a single track:
1. You don't want any one timbre to stand out, in the same way orchestral instruments blend together to form a single sound;
2. You don't know how to optimize your timbres to use as little FX as possible even for a lot of different timbres/instruments; OR
3. A lot of the VSTi's are used for "one shots" -- quick notes that only play a short sequence then aren't heard any more.
#1 is certainly legitimate, but i would suggest routing them thru a single plugin wrapper like Chainer to better control the sound and FX.
#2 means that you 're unaware of what your listener will hear when it's played. Except for VERY special effect, you don't need more than a 2 delay/reverb FX, and 2 flanging/chorusing FX (unless you're using different settings at different times in the track, in which case you can change those settings with PC notes or Zxx macros, which see), plus whatever instrument-specific VST FX you're applying. The human ear can only pick up a limited number of reverb and chorus levels. But i can't see how you can work up to SEVENTY VSTs even for a big track.
Concerning #3, if you're using a lot of oneshots, i would suggest transferring the notes to samples and use those instead of loading the plugin. It will save on load time and MAY reduce the overall memory footprint of the track, esp. if you call them more than once in the track.
You must have a helluva system to handle 70 all at once. I bet if a loaded 70 VSTs in a track, and called C-5 to activate all of them at once, i wonder if they'd lock up my 2 Ghz machine! :P
well, im just playing, having fun making music, i havent studied much or tried to learn too much about the fiddly bits, i used to, back before vsts.
trying to get that sound.
i dunno, i dont add an vst, unless i think it makes the sound better, i make rather complex songs, with lots of layers and stuff, i havent tried chainer yet.
i also dont use that many "big" vst´s, and i havent yet made a song with a vsti (havent really found one yet that inspired me.)
my computer is a intel i7 3.4ghz (have been using middle of the line puters since i was 13, got a lucky break moneyvise and decided to get something that could really handle the vst load i wish to use.)
on transfering the single notes to wav, it would have to be a long wav, or a bunch of wavs, my melodies are rarely if ever, exactly the same over 2 patterns.
and im not really caring That much about what the Listener hears, either people like my stuff or not, i only can write to my pleasure and i have very good ears, quite above normal and i can easily pick apart many different melodies and hear the tiniest things and details.
though im always interested in learning something new.
i Have been overdoing the bass for some time. (personal opinion. :))
and im only just learning as i go, my songs are by no means perfect.
i do things the way i do, because i dont really see another alternative to getting the sounds i want, not a direct one, though i think im gonna try converting each instrument into a wav and then working on that in some other daw.
but, i dont add a vst unless i like at least some of what im hearing, over the previous sound.
you guys make good points though. worthy of consideration.
how i can use 70 effects at once?
well, i usually effect everything, unless i want a dry sound for it, and each effect might have a different effect.
filters, compressors, distortion and so on, and maybe all on one single instrument.
and then i might have 3-4 or more leads (if its a long song, short, maybe 2.)
2-3 basses (of varying frequncies.)
5-10 supporting instruments, a shitload of different single shot drums to make the beat or beats (or frills or whatever.)
then some fx and voices,vocals and whatnot.
usually 70-255 instruments, depending on song or length of it.
im still learning how to arrange and fit all that without it getting muddied. and i tend to overdo it. :)
2. You don't know how to optimize your timbres to use as little FX as possible even for a lot of different timbres/instruments;
could you give me some tips? :)
i often use old samples, even 8bit 8khz, if i like something about the sound, i try to bring it out with some vst´s, if you know a better way. (and ive used various audioeditors and whatnot throughout the years and i like the vst route better.)