Hi everyone,
Over the years, there's been some mention of reViSiT (http://revisit.nashnet.co.uk) on these forums, but I thought I'd fill you in on the more recent developments, which have transformed the program into a far more mature, flexible and capable tracker, compared to what people might have originally experience with earlier (pre-1.0) alpha and beta versions.
EDIT: reViSiT is a tracker that runs as a VSTi plugin inside your existing software, giving you the best of both worlds - sequencing and tracking - in a single piece. Audio is delivered to the host directly, like any other VSTi, but optionally also via additional reBUS plugins (included) that allow you to spread samples, instruments and channels over separate audio busses for independent mixing.
Moreover, now is your chance to get a fully-licensed copy of reViSiT Pro for free, as part of research into trackers that's taking place here in Cambridge (see here (http://experiment.nashnet.co.uk) - apologies for the apparently shameless plug; but the more users I get in the experiment, the more reliable the data is for my research, which could well scientifically-prove the crucial role of trackers, in the future of music technology).
Many of the issues people here commented on have been addressed - customisation, performance, stability, closer integration with the host - and reViSiT Pro now offers several unique features (http://www.nashnet.co.uk/english/revisit/pro.htm), not found in other trackers.
As most of its users will testify, reViSiT has developed enormously over the last 1-2 years and continues to do so, based largely on user feedback. So, if there's something you'd have reViSiT do differently, just bring it up on the reViSiT forum (http://forum.nashnet.co.uk).
Anyway, 'hope you find this info useful. It'd also be great to hear people's thoughts about how they view the tracker interface, especially compared to mainstream music software (e.g. sequencers).
Best,
Chris
(reViSiT Dev)
http://revisit.nashnet.co.uk
http://experiment.nashnet.co.uk (reViSiT Pro for free)
Some off topic question: You claim to be the first tracker having surround sound; can you prove that you had this before modplug? I would doubt it, since mpt appears to be a lot older than reViSiT.
EDIT: Based on the screenshots, I guess you don't count quad surround as "surround" or something. Oh well...
Hi Jojo,
No, I count Quad (4.0) as surround sound, but (do correct me if I've missed something) the support in ModPlug is largely about giving people either the Dolby Surround 'virtual' channel or stereo access to the rear channels, rather than having support for more than 2 channels at once.
In reViSiT Pro, the tracker notation has actually been changed to add a column for depth, in addition to [stereo] panning, allowing composers to spatialise their music in two dimensions (as xxyy coordinates):
Volume: ··· ·· ·· .00
Pan/Depth: ··· ······.00
In addition, there are extra tracker effects especially designed for 4.0/5.1 setups, such as rotation (theta, Txx), theta & depth slides (Wxx & Vxx) and panning/depth column values to address discrete (single) channels (FL,FR,RL,RR,CT,LF).
I love surround sound, but there wasn't really a program out there that's not somehow limited by the convention towards stereo audio, so it was something I was determined to address with reViSiT. So, when I say "first", I'm more referring to the level at which support has been built into the design. I think that was what I was going for with the word "dedicated" [... surround sound features], but perhaps its not the right word ("integrated"?).
'Hope this answers your question!
This could be interesting, so basically we could get a tracker ReWired to sequencers, just like Renoise is able to do right now?
From the features, that subrow zooming editing surely looks interesting, i would definitely try what we can do with new version, compared to ReWire-ing atm with Renoise, how "mature" it has become over time.
I'll fire up my Ableton.
edit: but unfortunately i cannot agree with this:
terms and conditions
....I understand that data collected during my use of this program will be stored on a computer and may contribute to scientific publications and presentations. I agree that the data can be made available anonymously for other researchers, inside and outside the Computer Laboratory. This data will not be linked to me as an individual...
i am very concerned about privacy, that why always super careful what am i storing on my comp, and using many protections (noscript, firewalls, etc), together with cautious browsing/clicking over the internet.
So guess im out. :D
chrisnash, well, I don't have a surround speaker setup so I have never played much with MPT's quad surround, but I guess that by mixing front and rear channels on two mod channels, one can do more than just stereo panning in front and rear. But I have to admit that your approach is a lot more sophisticated, although I wonder how many people actually make use of such powerful features (given that proper stereo mixing is already a pain in the butt and surround mixing requires a whole lot more expertise).
psishock:
Sorry to hear you won't be joining the party. The data collection is necessary for my PhD research - and the reason I'm giving the Pro Edition away for free. Please note that the experiment has been ethically approved by Cambridge University, and is purely for scientific/academic use - it will not find its way to some greasy, underhand commercial company. To this end, the consent form is a standard document that must be signed by all volunteers to all university experiments, and effectively just makes sure that I'm allowed to include the findings in my thesis. It is not spyware.
Jojo:
I hear you on the number of takers, and how cumbersome surround sound mixing is, but reViSiT's features will hopefully make the process a little more intuitive... and fun, perhaps...? The big problem, though, is the audience for surround work - how many people have properly set-up surround setups? If only we could force people to listen to Jarre's Aero DVD...
Any plans for a standalone version of reViSiT?
If I would join this, and get a pro license. Can I then also get newer versions or is it for this build only?
I am thinking of helping you out, but I am currently fearing that I might like the tracker to add to my music tools collection and at a point want the newer builds but cannot have them unless I pay for them.
g:
Yes, there are plans for a standalone version or, more accurately, a dedicated VST host designed to run the reViSiT plugin, called reMASTER. I've had a basic prototype working for a while, but it still needs a little work, plus some more advanced features (support for other plugins, audio file export). As such, it's something that will have to wait until after my research is complete.
LPChip:
So far, all the 1.x.x builds have been available through the experiment for free. When the experiment is complete, the data collection will end and participants can continue to use the software. I have yet to think about what happens after that, but support for these users will continue. This support will certainly include all fixes and minor updates (e.g. 1.3.x). The license will not cover any 2.x.x version, but I may well extend the licenses to include subsequent 1.x.x releases.
An increment of the first 'x' implies that a major feature has been added (key customisation, hi-def/subrow editing, mouse editing/novice features), and I have a loose roadmap of new features to tackle, but have yet to finalise which are going in 1.x.x and which will be pushed back to 2.x.x. I also have to decide what to ultimately include in the free Standard Edition, when I have a chance to update that.
Rest assured, when I get around to putting a price tag on any edition, it will not be a big one.
Hm, first the multichannel features looked very promising.
For me, it would certainly be nice to assign more output devices.
But the good news came first. Then, it appears that one is part of an experiment or investigation. Could be acceptable, but..
Then, it appears to be a VST plugin.. An odd order of information.
So I'll wait for a real standalone version.
fascinating... i would definitely like to participate in this experiment.
will the data you collect or the conclusions you draw be available to the public after the experiment? id be very interested in reading that.
samzen: you probably can use it in mpt, if not there are plenty of vst hosts that are available for free.
has this really been going on since december 2008? the faq just says it will continue for 'several months', how long do we still have to participate?
Sam_Zen:
Heh, good point - I did somewhat forget to mention that it was a VSTi plugin! I guess I got so caught up on reporting what's new, as to forget that some people were new to the reViSiT concept itself. Doh. ::)
If you're still interested, there are a number of free hosts out there - people have reported that VSTHost is quite good, and is a host solely designed for running VST plugins, making reViSiT effectively standalone.
Snu:
The data I collect will not be available to the public, but the thesis I write will be - and I'll include a copy on my site. I'm hoping I'll be able to demonstrate that trackers do some things better (than, for example, sequencers). If successful, I'll summarise the findings as a report for software companies in the music industry. Steinberg and Cakewalk have already said they'd be interested in what I discover, so this is a real opportunity to make a difference.
The experiment started in Dec 2008, but didn't really take off until Spring'09. It's gone on longer than expected because people were initially slow in signing up - and the learning curve (and, hence, drop-out rate) for trackers is always quite high. I should get enough data - but to be sure, with 1.3, I introduced a number of features to make the program easier to get into (e.g. mouse editing, dynamic help) and have tried a final push to get the word out, in the hope of getting just a little more. I'm hoping to get a few more months of good data, while I analyse what I already have, before writing it all up - which itself will take a couple of months.
So, registration will close come Spring'10, with me hoping to have submitted before the Summer's over, at which point I will rip the data collection stuff out and go... well, "pro", I guess. :wink:
Well, the problems of using MPT as a host for reViSiT would be that f.e. although MPT supports quad surround, it would not work with reViSiT, as MPT always downmixes VST plugins to two outputs (i.e. front left/right).
I'm having Vsthost and Minihost myself, but that was not the point.
And Jojo just added another reason.
I have several VST hosts, among Xlutop Chainer, and EnergyXT.
I've just signed up, but as I'm now at my work, I've forwarded the dl link to my home so I can install it tonight.
this route - the rewire for Revisit - was one of the future development wishes I had for OMPT - rewire support.
As I said there OMPT could occupy a valuable niche there and it is already standalone.
No offense chrisnash btw - I assume revisit does not support XM commands and does not have microtonal tuning capability - both of which OMPT does.
None taken - it doesn't support XM commands (though you can import XM files). Microtones, however, is something I want to add at some point.
Hi Chris,
Scala is *the* tuning and scale application - I suggest you look at import of scala tuning files - .scl
www.huygens-fokker.org/scala/
and it is a free program to boot - very powerful.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scala_%28program%29
Hmm, reViSiT is missing quite some functions I'd need in order to find this tool suitable to add to my toolbox. This is a shame really, cus I would really like to add it in my toolbox, so I can have a tracker in my sequencer, track a backing, and play over it using my continuum. That would rock really well. :)
What I basically miss are the following things:
- When I want to load a sample, I get a basic windows load dialog. I cannot preview my sample unless I loaded it. I always use modplug's treeview so I can preview the samples before dragging them in. Even IT had a preview option.
- It seems this is samples and instrument only. I nowadays have a lot of VSTi's, that I'd like to use inside ReViSiT.
- If possible, it would be nice to get samples from inside songs (like .IT files) I virtually have no samples stored on my harddrive, but those that I do are all in one big folder which I've gotten from a friend)
The following are just some annoyances that makes it harder to get used to:
- the resolution of the sample window is quite small, making it hard to set the loops right. I'd like to zoom in all the way so I can see where the 0 point is and get a precise loop directly, not change, select sample, play, wrong, select loopsettings, change, select sample, play, etc...
- You can't click everywhere to make things activated. I've often clicked the sample text when I quickly wanted to play and it started to type letters. In IT, when you did that, it would select the play button first and you had to navigate left to change the text. More intuitive I think.
For now, am going to track quickly in OpenMPT to get that feeling out of my system. I might try ReViSiT again tomorrow or so, but not today.
Quote from: "Sam_Zen"And Jojo just added another reason.
A reason for what? Not to use it? No. It was just a reason why surround sound will not work in MPT. I don't mind reViSiT being a VST, as there's no disadvantage in this.
QuoteThis is a shame really, cus I would really like to add it in my toolbox, so I can have a tracker in my sequencer, track a backing, and play over it using my continuum.
(http://sagagames.de/ithumb/thumbs/_o-_awg-__-____-__-____-__-____-_________-__-__-___-_-_______-__-__-_________-__-__-___-_______-____lv12.jpg) (http://sagagames.de/ithumb/show/_o-_awg-__-____-__-____-__-____-_________-__-__-___-_-_______-__-__-_________-__-__-___-_______-____lv12.jpg)
LPChip:
I appreciate what you're saying, but it sounds like some things are simply to do with what you're used to. Others, however, are on the to-do list:
Quote- When I want to load a sample, I get a basic windows load dialog. I cannot preview my sample unless I loaded it. I always use modplug's treeview so I can preview the samples before dragging them in. Even IT had a preview option.
- If possible, it would be nice to get samples from inside songs (like .IT files) I virtually have no samples stored on my harddrive, but those that I do are all in one big folder which I've gotten from a friend)
The sample load screen
is basic, but will not always be. I plan to implement "library" screens for samples and instruments, similar to IT2. At the moment, the file dialog is actually provided by the host. Originally, for some hosts (like Cubase), this meant that there was a sample preview feature built-in. Steinberg, oddly, have removed this in C5. That's progress.
Quote- It seems this is samples and instrument only. I nowadays have a lot of VSTi's, that I'd like to use inside ReViSiT.
Not so. reViSiT doesn't host VST plugins, but you can connect to VSTi/MIDI instruments, if you look in the Pitch/MIDI tab of the Instrument List (F4). Toggle the "Out" button to tell the instrument to use MIDI. There are also some advanced settings for MIDI control behind the Settings... button on this screen. For example, you can setup up to 10 MIDI effects (such as CC's) to use from the pattern. It allows for very close integration with all manner of synths.
If your host supports it, you can select "VST Host" from the MIDI device list, and the note data will be funneled back to your host, where you can link it to whatever VSTi or MIDI device you like. If your host doesn't support it, you can access the system's MIDI drivers, and perhaps use a MIDI loopback device, such as LoopBE to get the MIDI back to your host.
Quote- the resolution of the sample window is quite small, making it hard to set the loops right. I'd like to zoom in all the way so I can see where the 0 point is and get a precise loop directly, not change, select sample, play, wrong, select loopsettings, change, select sample, play, etc...
Granted, the waveform display is not the most detailed. Again, I'll change this when I have the chance. However, editing loop points shouldn't be difficult: Audition Mode is available from anywhere in the program, by toggling Caps Lock. If you hold shift while
releasing the note, it won't send a Note Off and will create a hanging note. Then you can play with the loop points on-the-fly, without having to retrigger the note - your edits will affect whatever is already playing.
Note: this shift-behaviour used to be more intuitive (you could just use Shift-<Note>), but there seems to be a little gremlin in the new keyboard handler. Something for 1.3.2!Quote- You can't click everywhere to make things activated. I've often clicked the sample text when I quickly wanted to play and it started to type letters. In IT, when you did that, it would select the play button first and you had to navigate left to change the text. More intuitive I think.
Heh, my supervisor tells me off whenever I try to use the word "intuitive" in connection with user interfaces. You can still click the [>Play] area at the end of the list item to get to this audition area, but I'll think about having this as the default jump-to point. Thing is, most text boxes will move the text cursor upon the click, so this is what I think most users would see as "intuitive". I guess what you're saying is change this to a list box, with double-click-to-edit.
In a nutshell: apparently, can neither open modules nor samples. :)
A bit more "extensive" report (after using it for 10 minutes): It's clearly visible where reViSiT's roots are. :) The first thing I did was dragging the mouse over the pattern editor, seeing that you can only select complete channel cells, not only parts of them (e.g. only the volume column). Yeah, good old IT. :)
Since you're even using a custom child window, I don't quite understand why the size of the instrument / sample editors is limited. As LPChip mentioned, the views are a bit small, especially on large resolutions like I use them.
A general note: I find it very hard to switch between trackers, and I know that most tracker people feel exactly them same thing. IT users hate anything FT2-based, while FT2 nutters loathe anything that resembles IT in a way. Although I have spent a lifetime (well, not quite :) but man, it's almost a third of my life now :o ) with MPT and also used a few AdLib trackers before that, I still find IT somewhat usable, while I detest f.e. Renoise's interface. This might help me getting into this VSTi a bit.
QuoteIn a nutshell: apparently, can neither open modules nor samples.
Sorry, can't quite follow you here - are you having trouble loading samples or modules? Admittedly, the only sample format supported is WAV, but module (including their samples) support is pretty broad - MOD, XM, S3M, IT.
QuoteA bit more "extensive" report (after using it for 10 minutes): It's clearly visible where reViSiT's roots are. The first thing I did was dragging the mouse over the pattern editor, seeing that you can only select complete channel cells, not only parts of them (e.g. only the volume column). Yeah, good old IT.
Heh, this was recently discussed on my own forum - here's what I replied then:
You'll be pleased to hear that, when I did the coding for sub-row selections, I coded the foundations for sub-column selections, too. However; how, or if, I add them is still undecided. Having sub-column selections really slows down copy-and-paste operations, if you want to handle whole rows. For example, if it takes 8 cursors to the right to select a channel, rather than one; it's a major bottleneck. You might argue that you can hold the cursor down, but the loss of accuracy in such cases will damage your feeling of being "in control", and derail the flow you were in. Alternatively, perhaps there are special shortcuts for sub-column selections and whole-column selections. In which case, this is just another thing for the user to learn, and which do you make default?QuoteSince you're even using a custom child window, I don't quite understand why the size of the instrument / sample editors is limited. As LPChip mentioned, the views are a bit small, especially on large resolutions like I use them.
It's historical, mainly. reViSiT started as a fixed-size plugin window, but had to break away because host's impose too many compatibility issues (notably with stealing keyboard input). I don't want to have sizeable sub-windows, because I want to minimise the amount of windowing and housekeeping the user must do, and keep the layout constant, but I do want to make better use of the space, so enlarging the sample pages, etc. will happen at some point. Like everything, though, it just takes time...
Thanks Chrisnash.
I'll look into some of the things you pointed out.
If I can get midi to work as I want, then most of my problems are gone and I can do what I want to do: create patterns in ReViSiT that play VSTi's, and use another VSTi with my continuum fingerboard to lay a melody around it.
I don't think this tool will be a replacement for OpenMPT but its nice to have it next to it, for when I'm working in EnergyXT.
Quote from: "chrisnash"Sorry, can't quite follow you here - are you having trouble loading samples or modules? Admittedly, the only sample format supported is WAV, but module (including their samples) support is pretty broad - MOD, XM, S3M, IT.
I just get a "Loading... cancelled" or something like that when pressing one of the loading buttons. Or "can't load a module while reViSiT is playing" (where is a bit more clear what it's supposed to mean, but stopping the module just leads to the former error).
Chris,
A question - is it true from your experience that rewire does nto work in a 64 bit environment?
I was just reading such on the Sonar site - curious as to your experience.
Thanks,
Chris
I've not had much hands-on experience with ReWire, and I've never been able to get the SDK, as I'm not an "incorporated" company (though I could be for £30, down Companies House).
Some people have mentioned that you can connect 32-bit plugins/ReWire slaves to 64-bit hosts/ReWire masters, but many of the bridges that manufacturers have written so far are very buggy. reViSiT has a crash report option, and it occassionally catches other (non-reViSiT, systemic) crashes in the host software - many of which seem to originate in such 32/64-bit bridges.
For my own part, my 64-bit experiences have so far encouraged me to stick with 32-bit XP - XP64 seemed a little rough-round-the-edges, Vista was always a dog no matter what the bit rate, and 64-bit 7 has several serious teething problems. Add to that; my computer throws a wobbly if I chuck anything more than 2Gb in it, so there's little in it for me!
ahh ok.
I run Vista 64 with a Quad cpu and 6 gigs of ram.
My main two DAWs are Sonar producer 8.5 and Open MPT.
So it sounds like ReVisit is... not a possibility for me.
Actually, I'm getting along with Vista 64 fine though it is truly quirkier than the Win 7 64 bit I have on my laptop. My thinking is that Vista needed *way more* horse power than they were ever willing to admit.
Win 7 64 runs about as speedy as XP 32 I used to have - but is much prettier :-)
That's not to say reViSiT has any fundamental problems running 64-bit itself - it should run just as well as any other 32-bit VSTi on 64-bit. I'm just alluding to the possibility that the 32-bit plugin support of some 64-bit hosts might be better than others.
Just in case there's any confusion - reViSiT does not use ReWire. The communication between reViSiT and reBUS is "homegrown". :wink:
Also, OpenMPT would be a possible 32-bit host to choose. ;)
Quote from: "Jojo"Also, OpenMPT would be a possible 32-bit host to choose. ;)
Does OpenMPT do rewire?
My understanding is that ReVisit is a rewire device - not a VSTi.
QuoteJust in case there's any confusion - reViSiT does not use ReWire. The communication between reViSiT and reBUS is "homegrown".
ah, ok, glad I asked.
Then I *can* use it with Sonar.
or... should be able to.
I've also edited my original post to make the description a little clearer, notably mentioning that reViSiT is a VSTi plugin.
One of the ideas behind the reViSiT plugin was to give sequencer users a taste of tracking without having to download, install and learn a whole new, separate program. As a plugin they're simply adding to their existing studio and skill set, and don't even have to use it for their whole song. For example, one can use the beat-munging capabilities of tracking for their drum programming, but record the rest of their track via MIDI or Audio.
Quote from: "chrisnash"
One of the ideas behind the reViSiT plugin was to give sequencer users a taste of tracking without having to download, install and learn a whole new, separate program.
well.... to be fair just going from FT to IT commands has a learning curve, let alone going from a piano roll, or staff to a tracker interface.
Not that it isn't a great idea - I think it is.
And - for what it is worth - OMPT has no installation really.
ive played around with it a couple times, and while i like the general idea, im really having a hard time getting used to the limitations.
specifically-
lack of ability to preview samples (as lp mentioned)
i also find myself really missing the treeview that mpt has, great for previewing and dragging in instruments
lack of sub column selections...
what about having them selectable with the mouse, but not with the keyboard? and as for the 'one more thing to learn' argument, i think following the windows convention of: normal left and right moves by a character, and holding down the ctrl+left/right moves by a word (a whole column) would be logical.
if there is a way to view the order list while editing the pattern, i have yet to find it...
im REALLY finding it hard to use without that (i always click to a different pattern to edit). also lack of drag-n-drop editing for the order list is killing me... at LEAST double clicking or pressing enter when a pattern in the order list is selected should cause that pattern to come up in the editor (and maybe close the order list window too). also, having the currently opened pattern hilighted in some way on the orderlist would be nice.
lack of fully customizable keyboard.
i use a dvorak layout, so i have to switch back to qwerty to enter notes.
lack of tooltips
took me a while to figure out what a couple buttons were, very nice feature for those just learning the program.
to offset all the negatives, some features i really love:
the 'zoom in' on each row thing, little hard to get used to but very cool
that piano keyboard at the bottom of the screen, nice little visualization
that midi triggered patterns feature looks amazing, or would look amazing if i were using sequencers mostly and just using a tracker for some parts of the music
also, as a note to jojo, it seems to not work properly in mpt, i cant get it to load songs, but it works properly in other hosts.[/list]
Quote from: "uncloned"And - for what it is worth - OMPT has no installation really.
Yes, but it's still a separate program and with OpenMPT, users can't keep their sequencer at the same time anymore; that's what's so different.
Thanks everyone for the feedback - the support is really encouraging!
Chris
Snu:Quotewhat about having them selectable with the mouse, but not with the keyboard? and as for the 'one more thing to learn' argument, i think following the windows convention of: normal left and right moves by a character, and holding down the ctrl+left/right moves by a word (a whole column) would be logical.
Some nice thoughts here - I'll think about it for a future update.
Quoteat LEAST double clicking or pressing enter when a pattern in the order list is selected should cause that pattern to come up in the editor (and maybe close the order list window too). also, having the currently opened pattern hilighted in some way on the orderlist would be nice.
I can't see why this couldn't be added, too. However, at the moment, you can hit 'g' (for "
go to pattern") to achieve the same effect.
Quotelack of fully customizable keyboard.
i use a dvorak layout, so i have to switch back to qwerty to enter notes.
The "Key Shortcuts" button, in Preferences (F12), should allow you to setup you DVORAK keyboard, and change the note layout. If you stick with reViSiT and come up with a scheme for DVORAK that you like, perhaps you might consider posting it on the reViSiT forum (http://forum.nashnet.co.uk).
Quotelack of tooltips
took me a while to figure out what a couple buttons were, very nice feature for those just learning the program.
True, I should have something like that. Trouble is, most controls are coded from the pixel up, so there's no built-in tooltip functionality. On the other hand, the custom approach should allow me to add them at some point - as soon as I have the time.
Just tried the new version, but apparently the "open" buttons still do nothing on my system. I still get "Loading cancelled" there.
Hi Jojo,
I've hooked it up to the debugger and it looks like the CFileSelector::run(VstFileSelect*) process is failing. The null return of this function is normally used to flag that the user clicked the cancel button, but here it looks to be flagging an error.
Typically, requests for common dialogs (File dialogs, etc.) are relayed to the host to produce. It looks like OpenMPT is unable to present an Open dialog when reViSiT requests one (despite reporting to VST plugins that this is something it "canDo").
If someone wants to have a go at fixing this, in OpenMPT, I'll try to answer any questions they have, and can provide example plugin-side code that I'm pretty sure is correct, and represents how most plugins (should?) do the request.
'Hope this helps,
Chris
I personally don't know much about the VST SDK so I'm not sure if I can fix this, but I guess this code is related?
case audioMasterCanDo:
//Other possible Can Do strings are:
//"receiveVstEvents",
//"receiveVstMidiEvent",
//"receiveVstTimeInfo",
//"reportConnectionChanges",
//"acceptIOChanges",
//"asyncProcessing",
//"offline",
//"supportShell"
if (!(strcmp((char*)ptr,"sendVstEvents")==0 ||
strcmp((char*)ptr,"sendVstMidiEvent")==0 ||
strcmp((char*)ptr,"sendVstTimeInfo")==0 ||
strcmp((char*)ptr,"supplyIdle")==0 ||
strcmp((char*)ptr,"sizeWindow")==0))
return 1;
else
return -1;
Apparently, the "audioMasterOpenFileSelector" action is logged, but not actually executed.
Hmm, I don't think that NOT operator (!) should be there in the initial IF clause. strcmp returns 0 if it matches the string, and then it looks like you want to return 1, saying you support that.
As it is, this routine will return -1 for all the strings you specify and 1 for all the ones you don't (!). -1 indicates that you don't know if you support it or not. 0 is used to say there is no support.
Thanks for joining us on these forums, Mr Nash. About a year ago i tried out ReVisiT, mainly because MPT had some holes that needed to be filled (even though it's THE best free tracker program out there. I thought it was odd that, since ReVisiT was a plugin, i had to open it from MPT! That seemed absurd. But i decided to give it a chance...
While i don't remember what i did and didn't like about this plugin, i do remember i was taking a step BACKWARD using ReVisiT. The main issue was keyboard customization. I have gotten used to certain keys calling certain functions or inputting certain entries. If i couldn't customize at least as fully as MPT, it wasn't worth my time. And i sent you an email to your website stating this fact. I am happy to see over time a lot more keyboard customization has been allowed.
As far as features, i don't remember specifics, but it wasn't enough to make me go to ReVisiT and put aside MPT. I have tried Renoise and that one is too "busy". The nice thing about MPT is that it is compartmentalized effectively. It still needs, and is constantly getting, improvements to its features and interface, but i know it and know it well. For me to try any other tracking software, standalone or plugin, it has to either be BETTER than the one i'm using, or ADD to what i do when i compose with my tracker. (And be free of charge! :wink: )
The learning curve with ReVisiT, if i remember correctly, was not nearly as steep as with Renoise, but it just lacked a lot. I have kept with your "newsletter" emails you've sent me, but i'm still waiting for the following:
1. FULL keyboard customization (at least as deep as MPT's). Interface appearance customization is secondary to that.
2. FULL VSTi access and hosting. MPT has some limitations with loading VSTi banks, but recently has overcome some problems with parameter control. I'm not going backward from here.
3. FULL Pattern Editor display customization. This is after all where we all work. MPT has many nifty features but not enough to realize my workspace the way i want it. The ability to hide/show channels and columns, as well as visible global attributes like channel volume and channel audio output (including plugins) would be necessary, and should be the first consideration in a tracker interface.
I hope this helps in guiding how you develop ReVisiT. I'm still interested in its development, and i am keeping an eye on your product and how it's evolving... :)
@chrisnash:
Okay, I played around a bit with file selector dialogs. I'm not quite sure yet how to return the result. Tried to copy the final string in the returnPath pointer, but that didn't work, apparently. Well, I wouldn't wonder, because how am I supposed to know how big the char array behind the pointer is? (sizeReturnPath was 0).
Can you explain a bit how data is supposed to be passed back to the plugin?
YAY EXPERIMENT!
Harbinger:Thanks for keeping up with the project - there are many plans to add features, so hopefully you'll find it more tantalising as the years go by. Saying that, I don't want to bloat reViSiT by packing it full of too many features. The core concept of reViSiT is that it plugs into a host, such as a DAW, and allows you to track music using the host's bells and whistles. So, whereas you lack the built-in DSP and FX found in Renoise, you can get all that functionality from the host.
As for your specific requests...
Quote1. FULL keyboard customization (at least as deep as MPT's). Interface appearance customization is secondary to that.
I do plan to expand the customisable keys. Most of the keys that are not currently available to customise are those more closely integrated with the UI code, so it takes time to extract and abstract them.
Quote2. FULL VSTi access and hosting. MPT has some limitations with loading VSTi banks, but recently has overcome some problems with parameter control. I'm not going backward from here.
There are no plans to turn the reViSiT VSTi plugin into a VST host. However, most hosts provide some way for you to link reViSiT's MIDI output up to its own VSTi plugins, allowing very tight control of synths, etc. I don't know whether its easy to do VST parameter automation, but this is something I'll look into. I'm also working on a side-project to develop a dedicated program, just for hosting reViSiT (thus making it standalone), which will have the ability to host other VST plugins.
Quote3. FULL Pattern Editor display customization... The ability to hide/show channels and columns, as well as visible global attributes like channel volume and channel audio output (including plugins) would be necessary, and should be the first consideration in a tracker interface.
Naturally, the Pattern Editor is the most important part of any tracker, and a lot of improvements are planned for reViSiT's - specifically in the area of visualising what's actually going on, as you touch on.
Flexibility is important, but "customisation" will only be available sparingly. I intend to limit the number of program settings as much as possible, to limit users from having to do too much housekeeping.
MPT is a case in point, here. It offers uncountable settings to help you customise the interface. If you're like me, you probably spent ages trying to configure it just like it was in <X> Tracker; only to be ultimately disappointed because you can't get that 1:1 match. Yet, because you managed to match 90% of the behaviour, you'll end up thinking of it as a more limited, more frustrating version of the program you were using, rather than a new, different program, with its own identity.
reViSiT's current behaviour feels similar to IT2, simply because that's the reference I chose to start from, but I typically don't hesitate in changing how things work, if I (or a user) should come up with something *better*. And should it replace a clunkier part of the UI, then that part won't be kept if the only reason to keep it is that it's what people are "used to".
The forum is a good place to mention any ideas/annoyances. If people agree with you and your argument is well-reasoned, there's a very good chance it'll lead to a change.
'Hope this answers your questions!
Jojo:I have to dash off now, but I'll try and dig out a slice of example code that shows you what VST plugins typically expect.
Jojo:
Sorry for the delay - the last couple of months have been busy ones. As promised, please find some example code below to illustrate how plugins request file dialogs from the host. The code is based on a Steinberg example from the VST Mailing List, so should represent the norm for plugins.
VstFileSelect vstFileSelect; // (create file selector)
memset (&vstFileSelect, 0, sizeof (VstFileSelect));
vstFileSelect.command = kVstFileLoad;
vstFileSelect.type = kVstFileType;
strcpy (vstFileSelect.title, "Open Module...");
vstFileSelect.returnPath = new char[1024];
vstFileSelect.initialPath = new char[1024];
strcpy(vstFileSelect.initialPath, modulePath);
if(vstFileSelect.initialPath[strlen(vstFileSelect.initialPath) - 1] != '\\') // ensure path ends in '\'
strcat(vstFileSelect.initialPath, "\\");
if(effect->isHostVendor("steinberg")) // Steinberg expects path to include wildcards/filters
strcat(vstFileSelect.initialPath, "*.zip;*.it;*.s3m;*.xm;*.mod");
VstFileType vstrType ("Compressed reViSiT Module ", ".zip", "zip", "zip", "audio/rvz", "audio/x-rvz"); // (native VSTR format file)
VstFileType itType ("Impulse Tracker Module", ".IT", "it", "it", "audio/it", "audio/x-it"); // (IT format files)
VstFileType s3mType ("Scream Tracker 3 Module", ".S3M", "s3m", "s3m", "audio/s3m", "audio/x-s3m"); // (S3M format files)
VstFileType xmType ("Fast Tracker Module", ".XM", "xm", "xm", "audio/xm", "audio/x-xm"); // (XM format files)
VstFileType modType ("Protracker Module", ".MOD", "mod", "mod", "audio/mod", "audio/x-mod"); // (MOD format files)
VstFileType listType[5] = { vstrType, itType, s3mType, xmType,modType };
vstFileSelect.fileTypes = &listType[0];
vstFileSelect.nbFileTypes = 5;
CFileSelector vstguiFileSelect((AudioEffectX*)effect);
if (vstguiFileSelect.run(&vstFileSelect)){ // (open file selector)
// code to load file
}else{
// loading cancelled
}
delete[] vstFileSelect.returnPath;
delete[] vstFileSelect.initialPath;
'Hope this helps,
Chris
I've just thought about this again today, what a conincidence :D In the meantime, I wrote a bit of code, but it does not return any data to the plugin yet.
Another option is to return -1 when the plugin calls the host's canDo function, inquiring after file dialog support (openFileSelector/closeFileSelector).
If the plugin is written with VSTGUI, then it will automatically use the VSTGUI file dialogs (which are wrappers to the OS's common dialogs).
The next version of reViSiT (1.4) replaces several of the dialogs with its own interface (for sample and instrument loading) and forces use of the VSTGUI dialogs for other situations (e.g. saving, module loading and directory selection) - so, whatever you code, reViSiT 1.4 file interaction should work in MPT.
Getting back to this issue after a long time... I see that the current version of reViSiT use its own file selection code, so I can't test my new code anymore. Is there a place to get older versions, which still make use of the VST file dialog stuff, or could you probably compile a little example VST which requests a file, many files and a folder? I found the VST SDK to be extremely ambiguous when it comes to multiple files. And I couldn't find any VSTs that actually requests multiple files, and only reViSiT has a folder selection dialog.
The VST SDK is a bit hazy in places - however, the VST mailing list is good source of info and help (monitored by a number of Steinberg chaps). In any case, here's a link to an older version of reViSiT (0.94) with the old file handling, for you to test:
http://www.nashnet.co.uk/files/RVST094b.zip