Okay, this time a serious compo. It's time to take matters into hands, and do a percussive competition.
Presenting: The Percussion Compo
Quick Rules:
* No musical samples/instruments allowed (piano/bass/synths)
* No musical percussion instruments allowed (marimba/vibes/glockenspiel)
* Rhythm creativity counts!
* and so on...
Check out the site for more details: http://www.cdnalsi.net/percussion
If you have any questions, please fire away!
Good luck!
Very interesting. I might have a try.
I won't try, because I find the rules too quick.
Any sample/instrument can be modulated to create a percussive sound. And any sampled percussion instrument has a range of 7 octaves. These are strong potentials of the tracker-format. It's a pity to exclude this.
But perhaps you mean : No tonal or melodic elements.
Quote from: "Sam_Zen"No tonal or melodic elements.
I hope so too, cus otherwise, it would also exclude something simple as a tom, which makes this too hard imho.
Are congo drums also excluded?
and what about something as simple as a drum computer, like a 303?
Hmm, some strange replies :?
The thing is, I thought it was clear when I put the drumset that you can use toms (the toms being part of a drumset). You can also use congas, bongos, shakers, triangles whatever. I was talking about _melodical_ percussion instruments such as the vibes or marimba..
Oh and 303 is allowed, as an exception.
Interesting exception.
What kind of effects are allowed on the beat?
(And what's with these all-image webpages? :) Made sense for the crap compo, but I'm not sure it's really a good idea)
Quote from: "cdnalsi"Oh and 303 is allowed, as an exception.
I think you mean the 606, the 707, the 808 and/or the 909. ;)
Quote from: "speed-goddamn-focus"Quote from: "cdnalsi"Oh and 303 is allowed, as an exception.
I think you mean the 606, the 707, the 808 and/or the 909. ;)
But those are drums, so they would not be an exception.
Dang you got me all confused :lol:
I was thinking about the 808/909. The 303 are not allowed since they are synths. And for effects, of course you can use any kind of reverb, delay, phazer... but try not to screw the sounds too much...
@rewbs: I don't know.. I find it so much easier to work with images instead of html code. I dig Dreamweaver, but I guess it's just a matter of taste..
Would it be appreciated if I'd submit jungle beats?
Quote from: "cdnalsi"The 303 are not allowed since they are synths.
:(I was so happy when I first read that the 303 was an exception. :(
Someone (who is not me) should organize a tb303 compo. :D
@LPChip: It doesn't really matter what genre your entry is. But the reviews will take into account your rhythmical creativity!
@Xaimus: Yeah, sorry about that..
This confusion about what no and what yes is, is caused mainly by a classical point of view on instruments.
If one skips that, and rely purely on the electronic conditions, with their own rules, then the division becomes quite clear.
With electronics, the source of the basic sound doesn't matter. One can modulate the sound. As long as the result sounds 'percussive', it should, in this case, be allowed to use in a Percussion Compo.
You are so very right Sam_Zen!
But still take into note that it shouldn't use the instruments melodically. Like to create some scales or anything. Just pure rhythm.
Quote from: "cdnalsi"You are so very right Sam_Zen!
But still take into note that it shouldn't use the instruments melodically. Like to create some scales or anything. Just pure rhythm.
Can I conclude, that as long as you use it as drums, so without using anykind of melodic structure, it is okay to use? Also if you'd use a sample of a glass breaking in pieces to be played as somekind of snaredrum, it'd be okay?
Yes you may. But please try not to be such extravagant as to actually use the glass braking as your snare drum. The thing is mainly about rhythm, not about cool and never-before-used samples.
Quote from: "cdnalsi"Yes you may. But please try not to be such extravagant as to actually use the glass braking as your snare drum. The thing is mainly about rhythm, not about cool and never-before-used samples.
I will most certainly not. It was just to get the rules straight, and I think this example shows it in its best perspective.
May I conclude that I shall be expecting your entry? :)
Quote from: "cdnalsi"May I conclude that I shall be expecting your entry? :)
You can certainly conclude that I will try to send in an attempt. I also have some idea's and I'm quite good at this stuff too. Its just a matter of timemanagement.
Quote from: "xaimus"Quote from: "cdnalsi"The 303 are not allowed since they are synths.
:(
I was so happy when I first read that the 303 was an exception. :(
You can use an mc303 instead of a tb303. ;)
:(
I'm still not enough convinced to participate with an entry.
Now, the classical setup of a drummer's kit gets into the picture. Again : within electronics the range of percussion sounds is much, much bigger. Should you restrict yourself to a snare-sound as close as the acoustic one, or do you like to expand and create another sound with the same function as a snare, namely the basic counterpart to the 'kick' in the beat-pattern.
The sound of breaking glass would become quite boring after a short while, but such a sample still can remain useful.
Load it and use only the 2 or 3 highest octaves of the instrument. Or edit (modulate) the sample, like stretching, etc.
Still nagging about the 'melodic' thing. I agree of course about the disabling of tonal instruments, like a marimba with a certain well-tempered note-scale. But I think a frequency-variation should be possible. Many examples with acoustic percussion where this can be done. The elbow-pressure on a snare-skin, the wrist on a tabla, the string-bow on african drums.
I think you're thinking too much of this... Yes you can put your elbow on a conga, coz that's what congeros' do, and yes you can use the glass braking as a snaredrum, and no you can't use a marimba, a vibraphone, a glockenspiel, the timpani can be pitched, but not to create fancy melodies and such. Electronics can be used, but not to make them sound melodically.
I'm sorry to say you are really over-reacting with this discussion. Of course, you're right, but it all should be very simple.
I wonder why don't you see the simple side...
Lol, who's overreacting here? :P
But I guess that the 303 is allowed also, as long as its melodical side isn't being taken into account, but only to emulate a real drumkit.
Perhaps this is an occasion for exploring 'unorthodox' rhythms. Hm, perhaps not. I am able to create some interesting things in 4/4 - somewhat spiced up - but 3/4 for instance, I'm not that great with. I know how to create the basic pattern, but I haven't used it that much. Well. I'll find out.
Sounds fairly simple to me: No melodies, tunes, chords or "clean tones". Other than that - go nuts...
Nobody is saying you can't pitch your sounds, just don't play melodies with them...
I like the idea... I think I'll start messing about with some perc and see if anything interesting materializes... :-)
2 cdnalsi
Over-reacting is not my thing. Ego is not at stake. I prefer things being simple, but with clear conditions.
2 apple-joe
Talking about unorthodox .., you recall this thread ? :
Odd Rhythms (http://forum.openmpt.org/index.php?topic=261.0&highlight=odd)
Quote from: "Sam_Zen"2 cdnalsi
2 apple-joe
Talking about unorthodox .., you recall this thread ? :
Odd Rhythms (http://forum.openmpt.org/index.php?topic=261.0&highlight=odd)
Just read through some parts of it. Great reminder, I have been working 'too much' in 4/4 again recently.
Quote from: "apple-joe"Quote from: "Sam_Zen"2 cdnalsi
2 apple-joe
Talking about unorthodox .., you recall this thread ? :
Odd Rhythms (http://forum.openmpt.org/index.php?topic=261.0&highlight=odd)
Just read through some parts of it. Great reminder, I have been working 'too much' in 4/4 again recently.
Even though I only work in 4/4, you can do lots in 4/4. For instance, broken beats can be made in 4/4 but they dont sound 4/4 that much anymore.
EDIT: now that I think of it, perhaps I don't work in 4/4 anymore :lol: :nuts:
Quote from: "LPChip"Quote from: "apple-joe"Quote from: "Sam_Zen"2 cdnalsi
2 apple-joe
Talking about unorthodox .., you recall this thread ? :
Odd Rhythms (http://forum.openmpt.org/index.php?topic=261.0&highlight=odd)
Just read through some parts of it. Great reminder, I have been working 'too much' in 4/4 again recently.
Even though I only work in 4/4, you can do lots in 4/4. For instance, broken beats can be made in 4/4 but they dont sound 4/4 that much anymore.
EDIT: now that I think of it, perhaps I don't work in 4/4 anymore :lol: :nuts:
No, I think I see what you meant. There are many variations of 4/4 of course (standard "rock'n'roll" 4/4, "backbeat" - it depends also on the note 'value') - I've experimented a lot; yet I'm better in doing it than describing it. But then again, you may experiment the same way with other time signatures as well. What I am saying is that I limit myself a little if I use 4/4 exclusively.
Something to work on there, in other words.
About the interpretation of rules I could say that I really had to think whether a thing I made was too melodic or not. There tends to form a sort of a 'bass line', so maybe the percussion instruments indeed were 'too melodic' for this, but anyway the separation of rhythm and melody surely doesn't seem too well defined.
I`ll join :)
Just have a few questions. I understand perfectly well that I can`t use any melodic instruments but can I use effects? You know... those wooshy wooshy things you create by overdelaying stuff or wind blowing at the intro...
I could make a TB play a single note, rythmicly, is that precussive?
By the way, nice idea... ;)
Just one more thing.
Can I use vocals? Such that have absolutly no melody in them? Like me saying that tea would be served at 4?
And... who judges?
The idea is to have a rythm, so I guess saying is not allowed either, unless you'd use it as a snaredrum or so, which I think isn't even possible.
Really? Well I suggest you should go visit the old native indian tribes. They use their verbal abilities in inhuman speeds creating nothing but rythm. Listen to Shpongle - Devine Moments of Truth.
@yrk Finally! It's not that hard to understand! Sheesh! But maybe that's just me...
I don't know if there's anything wrong with playing like, a c1 or c7 on a drum sample, (there shouldn't be imho) but how bout this as a general rule: Nothing that has a distinctive pitch as can be recognized by an electronic tuner, unless said instrument is only played at one pitch throughout the entirety of the piece...
Lol...and i haven't even been to law school yet.
P.S. CDNalsi, i'm not trying to run your compo, but I think some things are still grey areas.
Y`know.. I really am interested in the questions I asked before...
OMFG You guys can't be serious!!
What is there so gray about percussion samples? It's a conga, a bongo, a shaker, a tom-tom, a cymbal, a snare, a bass-drum etc. Be they even synthish.. Okay, now that you have these, make something interesting RHYTHMICALLY!.
I don't want to hear melodies, I don't care much for the melodies. You will not get a higher grade with melodies. All I care about is the rhythm. I don't care much for the vocals either, but if you must scream "SAMBA!!" go ahead an do it!
I can't understand why you all refuse to see the simple side in all of this, and choose to go down complication lane....
Really!!
because we don`t want to get desqualified on technicalities? :lol:
Quote from: "cdnalsi"I can't understand why you all refuse to see the simple side in all of this, and choose to go down complication lane....
Surely things seem simple if one doesn't see the problems ;)
But ok, for example I first thought that even thought the rules might not essentially be well defined, maybe it doesn't matter, but the fact is that I have had real problems deciding whether the percussion instruments I use create melody even with different samples. For example, if one uses toms of different frequency, can that possibly be interpreted as melody? Maybe this is not what you meant with melody, but how should other people know how you define the concepts. But nevertheless, maybe this rule analysing is not so fruitful - if you think for example that my possible entry is too melodic, then just simply disqualify it :)
Quote from: "Relabsoluness"For example, if one uses toms of different frequency, can that possibly be interpreted as melody?
This is exactly what I was talking about. Of course it will NOT be considered as melody. I'm not an idiot you know :lol:
2 cdnalsi
You hit the nail on the head. It's about something Rhythmically !. With which instrument-sounds is secondary.
A Rhythm compo also has to deal with harmonic elements, just like a Tonal compo, because of beats per step or accents in a pattern.
A looped snare sample is exactly twice as fast if programmed to play an octave higher.
Wow, I really never though it would take this much of a conversation to get some drum samples, some afro-american samples, and do some tribal shit fire-dance rhythm.
Quote from: "cdnalsi"Wow, I really never though it would take this much of a conversation to get some drum samples, some afro-american samples, and do some tribal shit fire-dance rhythm.
Read the Thank You thread. We just keep the community alive :nuts: :lol:
Quote from: "cdnalsi"OMFG You guys can't be serious!!
What is there so gray about percussion samples? It's a conga, a bongo, a shaker, a tom-tom, a cymbal, a snare, a bass-drum etc. Be they even synthish.. Okay, now that you have these, make something interesting RHYTHMICALLY!.
I don't want to hear melodies, I don't care much for the melodies. You will not get a higher grade with melodies. All I care about is the rhythm. I don't care much for the vocals either, but if you must scream "SAMBA!!" go ahead an do it!
I can't understand why you all refuse to see the simple side in all of this, and choose to go down complication lane....
Really!!
ahahahahahaha
I burst out in laughter when reading this post. :D
Its fascinating the amount of tears resulting from one of the easiest sets of rules compo...
You poor man Cdnalsi, you poor poor man..
hey, still some time left... think i'll give it a try :D
Quote from: "cdnalsi"This is exactly what I was talking about. Of course it will NOT be considered as melody. I'm not an idiot you know :lol:
Well hardly a person who could consider it as a melody is necessarily an idiot, although it is very much possible that a person who is not sure about it is an idiot :P
OMFG We got a new entry! :lol:
http://www.cdnalsi.net/percussion
Dont worry. Im entering too. Finished the piece. Just doing the mastering.
And dont sware!
I have my entry finished almost, but I don't make it in time. :(
I have no time tomorrow to work on it. Is it possible to extend the deadline untill sunday?
I have my pretty ready but i`d like to master it to sound clearer (it was composed on PC speakers :P)... If I wont have time today, I`ll have to upload the unmastered piece [not even close to stsisfyingly mixed] :/
So another day would be nice :)
Well, there are 4 entries to date, and on popular demand, I've extended the deadline until the 3rd of July. So that's Sunday the last day to enter the compo.
http://www.cdnalsi.net/percussion
Quote from: "cdnalsi"Well, there are 4 entries to date, and on popular demand, I've extended the deadline until the 3rd of July. So that's Sunday the last day to enter the compo.
http://www.cdnalsi.net/percussion
Great! You're the best!
Uh oh ... let me see if I can make it too :D
Submitted my entry :)
As did I.
I can't, I am at work and can't make it :(
Well, the compo has ended and we have 10 great entries!
Now it's time for the reviews and the results. Please give me a couple of days to do this. Thanks for participating, stand by!
http://cdnalsi.net/percussion
Yay! The compo is over and here are the reviews, results and downloads and stuff:
http://www.cdnalsi.net/percussion (http://www.cdnalsi.net/percussion)
Congrats and thanks for participating! :D
Congradulations to the winner! :) [btw, is it krazykatz?]
Anyway my favourites are the tracks submitted by botb, AM1 and YarronKatz.
Congrats to the winner.
I'm a bit surprised about the outcome after reading the reviews. Haven't heard the results yet, but knowing Cdnalsi, it must be a deserved win.
I had lots of fun making my entry :)
A HUGE Thanks to Cdnalsi for hosting this Compo... Yes, Yarron Katz is I ( my real name ) and I'm very very very very very very very pleased to take first among these fine entries. :D
Good going to everyone and Im sure we all look forward to future compos..
Being 1st rocks! YAY 8) !!!