Hello, it's about time I do my 6th redesign of my site, and I am stumped as to a few things. Like layout, what kind of dynamic content to add, stuff like that. So I need your advice.
If you were going to a trackers website, what kind of layout would you like to see and why? Forget what you dont like about my current site, its a total mess, but think about sites you have seen that you liked, and what you didnt like.
Also, I have PHP capabilities now, so things can be dynamic, so what kinds of things would you like to customize/see/whatever?
Current ideas:
- Customizable theme, such as font, color scheme, stuff like that.
- NO flash, java, and minimal images, to go easy on modem/slow PC users
- Guestbook
- Download stats for songs and images, plus commenting for songs
- No frames
Sections will include Music (duh), Projects (programming stuff I have done), Gallery (mix between CG and images I have taken), Links, Contact, About.
So what do you think I should add?
What I did during my site redesign was stick the entirety of the song information into a MySQL database - it made updating the place far easier, and as you've learned PHP it's the obvious step to take. If you don't have that, a comma separated TXT might work as well.
Quote from: "Wong"If you don't have that, a comma separated TXT might work as well.
When I was too lazy to learn SQL, i thought about creating a text file database, like an INI file, but what happens when 2 people comment on a song at the same time and it tries to write 2 times at once? I dont know how that would be handled. But yeah, song info will be in HTML, and song stats/comments will be in SQL database now that I have figured out the beast.
Quote from: "Squirrel Havoc"Quote from: "Wong"If you don't have that, a comma separated TXT might work as well.
When I was too lazy to learn SQL, i thought about creating a text file database, like an INI file, but what happens when 2 people comment on a song at the same time and it tries to write 2 times at once? I dont know how that would be handled. But yeah, song info will be in HTML, and song stats/comments will be in SQL database now that I have figured out the beast.
Proper written scripts (using php's fopen command) will make sure that the file will be closed before it is opened again.
Just program it so that the routine first opens the file, reads it content, and in that same run writes the data to the file.
Quote from: "LPChip"Proper written scripts (using php's fopen command) will make sure that the file will be closed before it is opened again.
Just program it so that the routine first opens the file, reads it content, and in that same run writes the data to the file.
.........
I just learned SQL for nothing...... Everything I am doing in databases I could have done with a simple text file, I was just worried it would get corrupt. Oh well, maybe it will come in handy
Learning the database stuff is definitely not a waste of time... DBs have many many benefits over flat text files and in the long run are much easier to work with.
Quote from: "rewbs"Learning the database stuff is definitely not a waste of time... DBs have many many benefits over flat text files and in the long run are much easier to work with.
I totally agree!
I first did everything with txt files, but when I started to use SQL Db's, I didn't even wanted to get in all the hastle with txt files. Besides, You do a simple query and you can define exactly how and what data you retreive.
For instance, its easier to count how many entries you have in a table than in a txt file. You can easilly add a record or even an entry without having a hastle to take it into account for all your current songs.
Example: you have 100 songs which has the fields: name, count, url as parameters. You want to add a comments field which has a text field giving all the comments that were made in html formatting.
Since adding comments is something that will happen in the future, you don't have to add comments for each song. Atleast not in a DB. However, for your file, you need to go to each song to add a comments field.
in the db, you just add a comments field, with initial value EMPTY.
One thing I would like to learn in database programming is reversing the order of the data retrieved with a SELECT statement, so the newest entry is first
Make the site EASY to browse. The previous modplug site I found I had to get the hang of to find what I needed. The new site should have a KISS (keep it simple stupid) approach. Whilst this may seem to lack dynamics, too much dynamics encourage people to leave. Dynamics should be to impress and as a result should be used ONLY where needed to impress and catch ones attention. If the site is oversaturated in dynamic content you can no longer catch the eye. Talking about oversaturating is using a RED outlay. Red is outright catching so use it to make a point.
as for cool stuff to put on:
Hows about song of the day.
Articles section : talking about composing, using modplug, proffesional industry, why use modplug, Rock musics, filmscores, jazz hip hop etc... etc... ( Id be glad to contribute )...Hell you could dedicate entire sections on the subtopics. Make Modplug a useful resource for people that track and dont, and music lovers in general, and you could advertise within the various sections for the dough. Such as DJ Madboymcgees advert in the Trance section or whatever.
News bubble on front page of course.
Modplug users love the program and since its free would love to donate. You could make a link to donate to the producer / website administrator / janitor etc... or Buy the modpluig T-shirt / Mug / beer Mug. Beer mug is a good idea. No one sells official beer mugs. This could be the start of something.
Just my thoughts on the matter.
Keep up the great site.
P.s modplug cold host competitions...WAY COOL.
Squirrel: "SELECT these, are, some, columns FROM mytable ORDER BY date DESC".
[deleted]
Now, that is something I like about PHP - the huge number of functions that are included just to make things easier for you. Like "stripslashes", and so on.
:idea:
80% HTML
20% Flash
FLASH
There's nothing wrong with Flash when its used in moderation and the file size is kept low. One can really do amazing things. Action script 2.0 is very intuitive these days. (can use java, php, html, etc.) And there's new cool things you can do with Flash player 8.
In case people aren't aware, technology has leaped a million miles in the last 10 years, well even in the last 5 years to be exact.
Do we really want to cater to people who can't get a clue and join the club :?:
Or reward those who worked hard to purchase a machine and connection that can handle it? 8)
I know, why not cover all bases right?
The question is, "why do I feel I have to"?
If you like Flash, you'll attract others who like Flash too. It's as simple as that. :wink:
Well, that's my Flash shpeal anyway.
The floor remains open...
First of all, we need customizable "page-skins(?)". I'd prefer to browse these forums and compose topics/replies with a more futuristic and dark look (metal edges in blue chrome, for example). Plus, i hate red...yulllkkkhhh!
A few more emoticons would be nice (such as "Good work!", "That was uncalled for", and "I'm not sure i understand").
When designing a web site layout, i notice many of the designers have little artistic or functionality savvy. I can tell, because the important link buttons are kinda hidden by color or texture (y'know like the ones at the top of this page), the order of the buttons is not well thought-out (it should be based on the sequence of actions that a member or visitor is likely to make when browsing), and there is no visual distinction between 'sections' ? the background colors are all the same, the fonts don't distinguish different functions or purposes, or the purposes of different sections are not clear.
Guys, i love the fact that there are SO FEW ads and images that are loaded with the page; that i'd like to keep. Can we reach a happy medium between load time of pages and the custom look each member can apply? Let me ask you this: how hard would it be to make a COMPLETELY customizable page when visiting the site (like MyYahoo, where you can pick what is displayed and where, how big, what color, what font, etc.)?
Guys, please keep one thing clear :P
People give reactions based on THIS site, but Squirrel Havoc is asking advice for HIS site ;)
:? Oh.
:o NEVER MIND!!!
Quote from: "LPChip"Guys, please keep one thing clear :P
People give reactions based on THIS site, but Squirrel Havoc is asking advice for HIS site ;)
Rock on Chip! Moderate their asses ;)
I agree with Mr. Hartman's views. Flash is cool, but not in the hands of a fool. And don't forget to "optimize" the graphics. Bells and whistles is nice and all but i hate waiting forever just cos someone with a high spec PC and a fast connection forgot that optimization even exists.
Sjeesh, they made games in less than 40K once...or did they really?
Quote from: "Wong"Now, that is something I like about PHP - the huge number of functions that are included just to make things easier for you. Like "stripslashes", and so on.
Agreed - the coolest one ever has to be "strtotime". ;)
Quote from: "Squirrel Havoc"so what kinds of things would you like to see?
Make all your images PNG, unless they're actually high-resolution photographs.
Quote from: "Squirrel Havoc"So what do you think I should add?
A link to my site would be good. :P I'll add a link back when I update my site too. ;)
Quote from: "Atlantis"Quote from: "Squirrel Havoc"So what do you think I should add?
A link to my site would be good. :P I'll add a link back when I update my site too. ;)
I could swear I already have a link to your site, but if not, consider it added
Quote from: "Atlantis"Quote from: "Squirrel Havoc"so what kinds of things would you like to see?
Make all your images PNG, unless they're actually high-resolution photographs.
PNG is bigger filesize than JPEG, even though the quality is better, I want to go easy on modem users. My site will have very few graphics though, I want all the visual elements to be from HTML/CSS, I think using graphics is like saying "this will only look good at this resolution".
Quote from: "Squirrel Havoc"I think using graphics is like saying "this will only look good at this resolution".
I disagree. It really depends on how you use graphics in combination with the objects on your site.
If you use the background parameter with small images, resolution doesn't matter. When you make fixed width tables, you are more resolution depended than having dynamic tables with its background image set. For instance, look at this forum's top bar. You can shrink the site to a width of 400 without making it look crappy. Ofcource there's a moment that it becomes an issue, but thats after the text becomes an issue :)
The size of PNG isn't necessarily larger than JPG - for images with large flat-colour areas the PNG compression can be much greater.
Dudes,
I understand that the technical aspects are foundation to a great, flowing site.
But guess what, all the technical mish mash doesn't make a bit of difference if what you're fronting visually looks like pig feet pie.
As a visual designer, it's been my direct experience that most tech types tend to have horrible visual design and layout skills. They tend to focus too much on the technical aspects leaving a lot to be desired to the viewer.
Remember, the common viewer is not going to judge your site because you went with php, they are going to judge it by:
1.) How it looks (should be an obvious answer)
2.) How smoothly (or not) it functions
3.) Your marketing message (yes, you have a marketing message because you are essentially selling yourself even if there's no money making involved)
If you want a really great site which is what I'm assuming you're going for, I can lend you some tips on the matter.
Keep it straight forward and easy to navigate.
Do not clutter your visual space. (this includes tables/text, not just graphics)
Pay attention to color coordination (I can't stress this enough)
Pick just two typefaces to pull from in your CSS
Find a way to offer a simplified, yet attractive layout. (builds interest and branding)
Debating whether to compress with PNG as opposed to JPG or even GIF is a second matter. Coming up with a solid plan of execution that takes all matters of building a great site into account is priority one. For instance, a site map.
I think you started the thread with the big picture in mind but I see the thread is leading in a direction that's getting too asphyxiated on the small details. If you do this, you're going to be spending a lot of time problem solving and not producing a solid working plan. In the end, you will be too close to the details and you will start to notice problems popping up left and right that will take new thought out workarounds.
All this of course means in the end no site to speak of.
Quote from: "Squirrel Havoc"Quote from: "Atlantis"Quote from: "Squirrel Havoc"so what kinds of things would you like to see?
Make all your images PNG, unless they're actually high-resolution photographs.
PNG is bigger filesize than JPEG, even though the quality is better, I want to go easy on modem users.
If you saved the current "Welcome" text as PNG-8, I'm sure the size wouldn't be all that much bigger than the current 9 kB, but very ugly, JPEG. In total, this might mean an extra 30 seconds of loading time, which is hardly an issue imo, especially considering you're not looking at ugly compression artefacts.
Quote from: "Matt Hartman"
1.) How it looks (should be an obvious answer)
2.) How smoothly (or not) it functions
3.) Your marketing message (yes, you have a marketing message because you are essentially selling yourself even if there's no money making involved)
Very true!
I usually explain to clients that visitors to web sites go to a site for one reason - to get information. Whether that information is a specific product, a song, a video, forum posts, whatever doesn't matter - they click on a link to a web site because they believe that site contains information they are interested in.
The success of a site will be determined by how easily you make it for the visitor to get the information that they came to the site to get. Keeping this in mind, things like the load time of a page, the layout, etc. should become academic.
A great example is the php.net site (since we were discussing PHP) - simple, easy to navigate, easy to find information. Minimal graphics, chock full of information, very Wiki-like. ;)
2 MisterX
A bit contradiction here between "load time of a page becomes academic" and "minimal graphics".
I think it's a matter of elegancy to keep the contents of a page as small as possible, with of course a smooth and clear navigation.
So I still search for the smallest PNG-image if possible when uploading to a page. Not only by compression, but
by choosing the less number of used colors possible without decreasing the quality of the information.
PNG has a much broader range in this than JPG.
It's just silly to have a picture, only black and white, as a compressed file with a 16 million colors resolution.
Quote from: "Sam_Zen"2 MisterX
A bit contradiction here between "load time of a page becomes academic" and "minimal graphics".
You are correct - my wording was incorrect. :oops:
QuoteI think it's a matter of elegancy to keep the contents of a page as small as possible, with of course a smooth and clear navigation.
This comes with age. :)
And I can assure you, MisterX is nearing his days of depends.
Ole'buggar.
I miss that old coffee induced chagrin of his :wink:
(platonic ally of course)
Let me see if I understand everyone. What you are all saying is that:
Design is way less important than content
Keep the design simple and especially not oversaturated with any one thing (images/flash/php/etc, even text).
Make it easy to find what they might be looking for.
Thats much different than my original ideas:
Much visual content without overdoing the file formats, but much HTML/CSS for visuals.
Complex design to give the illusion that I have more stuff there than a few songs and pics.
Dynamic content up the butt with PHP
Thinking hard on flashy design since the content (songs, images, etc) are already done, so spend more time to make it look all snazzy.
So Mister X, being a pro web designer, could you sum up your main philosophy for designing a website in just a few sentences? I mean like any website
My advice would be to analyze what you don't like about other websites and not do it. You could also analyze what it is that makes you like a particular website, and then do it, tho that method is more difficult.
The design of the structure and layout of the site should be simple, but not necessarily the visuals.
I just had to guys. SH has one of the best handles, how could a trouble maker like me resist?
(http://artman-dg.com/shmock.jpg)[/img]
Hehe that is freaking hillarious! I have to put that on my blog. What did you use to make it?
Quote from: "Squirrel Havoc"So Mister X, being a pro web designer, could you sum up your main philosophy for designing a website in just a few sentences? I mean like any website
Lest I delve into another assault on the English language, I think that I should take a pass on this one. ;)
Quote from: "MisterX"Quote from: "Squirrel Havoc"So Mister X, being a pro web designer, could you sum up your main philosophy for designing a website in just a few sentences? I mean like any website
Lest I delve into another assault on the English language, I think that I should take a pass on this one. ;)
Hmm does that mean my English is horrible, or what? :?:
Quote from: "Squirrel Havoc"Hmm does that mean my English is horrible, or what? :?:
Not at all, I was referring to my own posts, not yours. :)
It's your site, you do whatever you'd like with it. I love Mr. Hartman's design, you should go with that - ask him for the PSD file. ;)
The "nutshell philosophy" (fitting, for a squirrel) is that a site suits its purpose, so you first have to determine what the purpose is - why anyone would want to visit the site in the first place, and then deliver on these ideas by making it easy for the visitor to find what they expected to find.
Quote from: "MisterX"The "nutshell philosophy" (fitting, for a squirrel) is that a site suits its purpose, so you first have to determine what the purpose is - why anyone would want to visit the site in the first place, and then deliver on these ideas by making it easy for the visitor to find what they expected to find.
That one would seem easy to most people, but I don't even know why someone would want to visit my site. I have a guestbook so people can leave comments, but the only people that have ever really left comments are my friends. Some people on the old guestbook I never heard of, were complimenting me on my music, so maybe I could focus more on the music aspect.
The thing is, I want to turn it into Rodent Revenge
Studios, still a personal homesite, but more serious (the goffieness is on my Blog), but more than just music, it will have CG, digital photos, programs I have written. If it was just music, that would be easy to design, but since I want to offer a little of every computer hobby I have, it's hard to attract people.
So either I need to think of a way to appeal to everyone, or just pick one thing (music probably) and focus the site on that, and do what I do now, just have one small section called "Other" where I put everything else.
Just a quick question to everyone who is planning on posting here: would you rather see my site as serious/pro, or friendly/goofy? I have always gone with the second, but then I never take anything seriously :P :oops:
Quote from: "Squirrel Havoc"Hehe that is freaking hillarious! I have to put that on my blog. What did you use to make it?
I used Photoshop CS2.
You want the PSD file?
Quotewhy anyone would want to visit the site in the first place, and then deliver on these ideas by making it easy for the visitor to find what they expected to find.
This is the question of the century. Once you determine why people would want to visit, you can come up with a solid plan. Obviously, you have to offer something that would peak an interest.
QuoteI don't even know why someone would want to visit my site. I have a guestbook so people can leave comments, but the only people that have ever really left comments are my friends.
I'd say you just eliminated the "personal, homepage" type of site.
Now you're closer to your answer.
QuoteSome people on the old guestbook I never heard of, were complimenting me on my music, so maybe I could focus more on the music aspect.
A place where people can listen to your music and learn more about the person behind the music seems pretty interesting, no?
QuoteThe thing is, I want to turn it into Rodent Revenge Studios, still a personal homesite, but more serious (the goffieness is on my Blog), but more than just music, it will have CG, digital photos, programs I have written. If it was just music, that would be easy to design, but since I want to offer a little of every computer hobby I have, it's hard to attract people.
If done with good execution and tactfully, it is possible to present a lot of various content within one site. My suggestion would be to keep everything relevant. Also, to place links in order of personal importance to you. Once again, build everything with that theme in mind.
QuoteSo either I need to think of a way to appeal to everyone, or just pick one thing (music probably) and focus the site on that, and do what I do now, just have one small section called "Other" where I put everything else.
Dude, you will never, ever appeal to everyone. But what you can do is focus on your target audience. Ask yourself this. What do you want to get out of this site?
Quotewould you rather see my site as serious/pro, or friendly/goofy? I have always gone with the second, but then I never take anything seriously :P :oops:
Then if being goofy is who you are, then you probably do it better than being serious. I don't see anyone going to a site that's called, "Rodent Revenge
Studios with the premise that they are going to get some serious and conservative information. Ya know?
Be yourself, because people like me smell pretension a mile away. :)
Quote from: "Matt Hartman"Quote from: "Squirrel Havoc"Hehe that is freaking hillarious! I have to put that on my blog. What did you use to make it?
I used Photoshop CS2.
You want the PSD file?
Yeah that would rock. I'm a GIMP man myself, it's the only program that supports my 1000+ fonts, PSP and photoshop only recognize about 100 of them :( Plus I only have the demos of the 2, so I can't keep using them, but I can export your PSD to PNG or TIFF and open it in GIMP.
About your long post, you've given me a lot to think about. I will try to rethink my stratagy with those thoughts in mind.