ModPlug Central

Community => General Chatter => Topic started by: bully34 on July 23, 2009, 02:56:17

Title: New modplug player??
Post by: bully34 on July 23, 2009, 02:56:17
So, when are you guys going to release a new Modplug Player? You haven't released one since 2001. Just askin'  :wink:

Thanks!  :)
Title: New modplug player??
Post by: Saga Musix on July 23, 2009, 07:49:43
Has nothing to do with OpenMPT development, so I move it to the general chatter.
Short answer: ModPlug Player is still closed source, so we can't do anything about it. Even if we got the code, I wouldn't want to continue working on it, rewriting it from scratch would be a better idea. BTW: A much better Mod Player which also handles SID tunes, MP3s, OGGs, and so on is XMPlay (http://www.un4seen.com/xmplay.html).
Title: New modplug player??
Post by: Louigi Verona on July 23, 2009, 09:35:25
Why is MPP closed?!
Title: New modplug player??
Post by: LPChip on July 23, 2009, 09:53:42
Quote from: "Louigi Verona"Why is MPP closed?!

Oliver never made it Open Source.
Title: New modplug player??
Post by: Louigi Verona on July 23, 2009, 12:04:05
Maybe noone asked him?
Title: New modplug player??
Post by: Nahkranoth on July 23, 2009, 12:11:39
Why should someone ask him if there are much better players (the ugly as hell XMPlay and my precious Foobar :wink: ) that play almost everything, even such things like Playstation, Dreamcast, Nintendo64, Atari, SID, and almost every possible Adlib tunes!!!
Title: New modplug player??
Post by: Saga Musix on July 23, 2009, 13:23:51
XMPlay has nice skins (like Neutron) and it has by far the best module reproduction.
And I'm pretty sure Olivier has been asked several times before.
Title: New modplug player??
Post by: Louigi Verona on July 23, 2009, 14:42:16
Hm. I am just puzzled why he wouldn't release MPP as well %)
And, tbh, in my mind there is a stereotype that MPP plays mod files more accurately than any other player. Perhaps this stereotype is wrong. XMPlay uses BASS library.
Title: New modplug player??
Post by: Saga Musix on July 23, 2009, 15:09:53
As MPP is based on libmodplug (and it's not even based on the same as the last closed-source MPT), it plays many modules wrong. OpenMPT's playback code is very accurate when it comes to IT playback, but especially XM compatibility is not perfect yet. XMPlay on the other hand is very accurate, just like anything that uses BASS. And it's still constantly being updated.
Title: New modplug player??
Post by: g on July 23, 2009, 16:51:37
If my memory serves me correctly it was indeed asked and Olivier replied something along the lines of the code being pretty much the same. That probably doesn't make any sense (even tho I'm like 68% sure), but neither does making back-ups of forums up so that information isn't lost forever. Apparently ;)
Title: New modplug player??
Post by: Saga Musix on July 23, 2009, 16:56:55
If you ever had a look at the MPT sourcecode, you'd see that great portions of the soundlib have parts that only compile when it would be used by modplug tracker and parts that would only be compiled when you would compile modplug player. The "only" difference is the GUI and the two modules mixer.
Title: New modplug player??
Post by: Louigi Verona on July 24, 2009, 05:00:57
Thanks for the info, guys. You say that the IT playback is very accurate in MPP. Mostly I listened to IT files.

When you say XM playback is not accurate - what do you mean? What is the character of inaccuracies?
Title: New modplug player??
Post by: Saga Musix on July 24, 2009, 12:17:21
No, IT playback is not accurate in MPP either - it is in OpenMPT.
Just look at this table, libmodplug is MPT 1.16 / MPP:
http://eval.sovietrussia.org/wiki/Player_abuse_tests
(Most of the stuff that's marked red in the OpenMPT column is fixed already...)

I know that FT2 has even more quirks than IT, so I can't really say what's playing wrong apart from the stuff that I've fixed. For example, Kxx has never been interpreted correctly until recently. Some FT2/MilkyTracker fanboy could show you many incompatibilites I'm sure, and that's mostly because MPT's focus is not on XM modules, I'd say.
Title: New modplug player??
Post by: Louigi Verona on July 24, 2009, 12:26:45
Interesting reading! Very interesting.
Title: New modplug player??
Post by: Rakib on July 24, 2009, 12:50:51
Quote from: "Jojo"No, IT playback is not accurate in MPP either - it is in OpenMPT.
Just look at this table, libmodplug is MPT 1.16 / MPP:
http://eval.sovietrussia.org/wiki/Player_abuse_tests
(Most of the stuff that's marked red in the OpenMPT column is fixed already...)

For reference, the above results were tested with:

   * Schism Tracker Hg 2009-07-20
   * Chibi Tracker 1.3
   * OpenMPT 1.17.02.54
   * libmodplug 0.8.7 (Linux GStreamer plugin)
   * XMPlay 3.4
   * BASSMOD 2.0-Linux
   * DUMB 0.9.3
   * Open Cubic Player 0.1.16
   * MikMod 3.2.2-beta1
   * MikIT 1.00-Linux
   * XMP 2.7.1
   * FMOD Ex 4.24.07
Title: New modplug player??
Post by: Saga Musix on July 24, 2009, 16:20:45
Is there any particular reason for your quotation?
Title: New modplug player??
Post by: Rakib on July 24, 2009, 16:36:00
They tested with the most recent release of OpenMPT, so is it fixed in a real version or in a build your working on?
Title: New modplug player??
Post by: Saga Musix on July 24, 2009, 17:06:26
It's fixed in the current SVN build.
Title: New modplug player??
Post by: uncloned on July 24, 2009, 19:13:49
I'm a little puzzled why the engine from OpenMPT can't be used for MPP

Did MPP support more formats than OMPT?

I could see a need for a player that supports at least the mptm format because nothing else but the full tracker supports it.

While its great to open the tracker to learn it is clumsy for casual playing of files - and I like the tuning ability of mptm format.

Is it possible?
Title: New modplug player??
Post by: Saga Musix on July 24, 2009, 20:17:31
MPP is closed source when will you get it?

Also, a player for MPTM modules would be a tracker again, because you would have to have many setup options like VST-Plugin folders etc. which don't really have anything to do with a player. Also, do you really want to play MPTM modules with VST-Plugins in realtime in the background while browsing websites for example? I can imagine that many processors wouldn't even manage to do both at the same time and still stay at very low cpu load. Rather render your tracks to wav and convert them to flac / ogg.
Title: New modplug player??
Post by: uncloned on July 24, 2009, 20:27:18
I do get it but I think you don't understand me

If you strip away editing what is left in ompt is the player engine. That is what I'm talking about and is foss.

Vst and vsti support is impossible.

But some people still use samples and at this time samples are the only way to use alternate tunings.  

I don't imagine anything but the tracker plays mptm files. But to my knowledge the tracker does not support playlists

I hope that was clearer
Title: New modplug player??
Post by: Saga Musix on July 24, 2009, 20:46:52
If you feel like doing a player based on the OpenMPT engine (removing VST support is done with one simply #define), feel free to do so - the sources are there. However, I doubt that many people would use such a player - Or at least the coder would have to be very eager to support plugins, mp3, ogg, flac, whatever - I doubt that many people would use a player that has no plugin support. That doesn't mean that I anticipate the idea of creating a new player, but I know that it's tough work and that *I* won't do it.
Title: New modplug player??
Post by: uncloned on July 24, 2009, 20:51:30
To be honest you sound frustrated.

I used to program ok but oop kinda blows my mind. Quick basic and assembler were my chosen languages.

I personally see no reason to support everything in a convenience player.
Title: New modplug player??
Post by: Saga Musix on July 24, 2009, 21:05:39
If I'm frustrated about something, then it's about people beating a dead horse - There is simply no point in coding MPP in the way it has been there before.
Title: New modplug player??
Post by: uncloned on July 24, 2009, 21:07:38
I agree

And do not suggest a swissarmy knife player.
Title: New modplug player??
Post by: Sam_Zen on July 24, 2009, 23:58:28
This was an issue on the former forum as well.
Quote from: "uncloned"Did MPP support more formats than OMPT?
Yep, it does :

(http://www.louigiverona.com/webarchive/samzen/modz/openlist.png)

I still have associated my .MOD and .XM files with MPP, just for a simple listen.
And it's just fine like that. I don't see the need for further development.
I can even jump to OMPT if I want to edit, via the Details button.
Title: New modplug player??
Post by: uncloned on July 25, 2009, 00:07:05
yes Sam.

It is true though that MPP does not support the new functions of the mptm format - nor will it ever.

and why do people think I am suggesting further development of MPP?

I have not suggested that.
Title: New modplug player??
Post by: Sam_Zen on July 25, 2009, 00:15:57
I didn't think you were doing that.
You just mentioned the option to derive a player from a stripped OMPT.
Title: New modplug player??
Post by: Saga Musix on July 25, 2009, 10:03:00
Quote
Yep, it does
Not it doesn't (as I've said multiple times before, the share the same codebase!). The only extra format would be "mol" - Which is a playlist format, so it is trivial. What would a playlist be use for in a tracker?
Title: New modplug player??
Post by: uncloned on July 25, 2009, 11:50:00
to allow one to use the tracker as a player along the lines of MPP

if playlists were allowed in OMPT then a player version would not be needed because the tracker could do it all.
Title: New modplug player??
Post by: Saga Musix on July 25, 2009, 16:24:28
To be honest I'd rather prefer an input plugin for XMPlay...
Title: New modplug player??
Post by: psishock on July 25, 2009, 16:37:15
QuoteTo be honest I'd rather prefer an input plugin for XMPlay...
almost wanted to suggest ;)
having my favorite tracked stuff able to be played in my choice of player would make everything 1000x easier and comfortable.