The source for this post, comments and more discussion here (http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2274635) and here (http://digg.com/music/Timbaland_ripped_off_a_track_from_my_buddy)
If one of the items below don't seem to be playing as they haven an unknown extension (.mod) (.it) then download XMPlay (http://www.un4seen.com/download.php?xmplay33).
Originally posted by: Minomus at CTG Music.com (http://www.ctgmusic.com/topic.php?id=7362)
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Ok, so here's the deal.
A Finnish demoscener and tracker musician, Janne Suni aka Tempest/Damage, makes a 4-channel Amiga track called "Acid Jazzed Evening" for Assembly (http://www.assembly.org) demoparty's oldskool music competition in 2000 and actually won the category. Then 6 years later, known producer Timbaland, who makes music for several known artists, ripped the track and it appeared on Nelly Furtado's track 'Do It' on her latest album 'Loose'.
This kind of things with demoscene music have happened before. In late 90s one Australian guy was selling lots of straight exported tracker modules as his own work. It's interesting that this happens and I guess it's because of these people aren't aware how popular and wide the demoscene actually is. So they think that if they haven't heard about it before, they can't get caught. And it's totally wrong thinking since most of ripped songs have been really well known in demoscene, party winners or made by most famous demosceners.
I've personally seen a lot of "this guy has stolen my music" type of threads and I'm always sceptic towards them, since really same kind of melodies can be made by accident. But this one is so clear that I think it was worth posting. Nevertheless, check the links below.
Evidence:
The original .MOD file you can get from Scene.org here. (http://www.scene.org/file.php?file=/parties/2000/assembly00/oldskool/music/acid_jaz.zip&fileinfo)
A mp3 of the same file, for those who don't have proper programs for playing the sourcefile, is here (http://www.genietervan.com/hoerr/tempest_acidjazz.mp3)
A c64 musician called grg remade the song on the c64 (using the infamous SID soundchip) which is what Timbaland used for Furtado's song. Mp3 version of it here (http://www.genietervan.com/hoerr/glenn_acidjazz.mp3).
Clip from the "Do It" here (http://www.genietervan.com/hoerr/furtado_doit.mp3)
A video demonstration of the tracks here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4KX7SkDe4Q)
The source for this post, comments and more discussion here (http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2274635) and here (http://digg.com/music/Timbaland_ripped_off_a_track_from_my_buddy)
This is unbelievable straight rip you rarely hear about. Also, I feel really sorry for Tempest, since I'm an old tracker musician myself and this isn't small thing like ripping a module and uploading it elsewhere with your own name, because in this case it's about serious business.
Edit:
The next is a post at the latter forum link above. The writer claims to be Tempest, can't be sure about it, but the analysis written are all correct:
"Ok. Something fooked up. I'll try again:
I came here to clear up some things...
Seems like many of the people writing here didn't even bother to listen closely to 'Acidjazzed Evening' (referred as AE from now on) and 'Do It' (referred is DI from now on), or are just plain tonedeaf. Maybe it would help if I'd explain what those songs have and don't have in common. Grab your headphones, because they really help spotting the stuff in DI that got sampled!
First: the basis of the song DI is the intro from AE. If you want to spot the similarities, then don't listen AE longer than 15 seconds, which holds 16 bars of music (no, DI is not "quoting" AE - 1-2 seconds would be quoting). There is not a single part in DI that is not based on these 16 bars. In the chorus of DI, the sampled part is cut into half and only the first half of it is being used, played over and over till the next verse, when the whole sample is being played again.
AE repeats it's intro-theme at some point, but mainly it goes to another directions. If you have hard time finding the resemblance between AE and DI, then don't listen AE for more than 15 seconds. This is crucial.
What was sampled?
For DI someone sampled the intro of GRG's C64-version of AE, but with disabling the bass-channel. The bassline was reconstructed in DI - no, It's not "totally different" than AE's bassline as someone said. It's just a stripped down version, with octave intervals removed (fe. A2-A3 -> A2) and 2-3 notes left out. There are 6 different chords (of which many are repeated) in AE's intro, jazzy kind of chords that for most I dont even know their names, but I'll list them here to show that it's not a typical pop-song chord-progression (actually if someone can find a similar chord-progression, I'll give him a beer or two):
G# C C# F | A# C# F G# | G# C# D# F | F# A# C# F | A# C D# G# | G# C D# F
Each column represents a list of notes used in each chord. It's not the actual chord-progression, but a list of the 6 chords (most popsongs have around 3-4 chords all together) used in the intro, but I think you get the point...
The chords are arpeggiated, which means that the notes in the chord are being played at the same time, but being rapidly from lowest note to the highest and not at the same time. This is a crucial point for anyone who can differentiate a clear note from a dog bark and because chords are not usually played like this, unless you're a superfast heavy metal guitar player, J. C. Bach or a 80s homecomputer-soundchip with only 3 channels available.
But in mainstream pop music? No chance.
The melody?
Listen to AE's intro few times and then listen to DI with headphones on. It's all there, playing in the background. The melody that Nelly sings is kind of a variation of the melody in AE's intro, but the original melody is also there, in the background of DI! Here's another crucial point; they didn't remove the original melody, but only lowered down it's volume and placed another melody (which Nelly sings) on top of it. I'd call this counterpoint, if the the people behind DI wouldn't be such hacks. If you want to verify my claim about the melody, then don't pay much attention to what Nelly is singing (or the drums) but everything else what is there; bassline, "background-melody" and the arpeggiated chords.
There you have it. 16 bars of music, a whole verse, which became about 4 verses in the hands of another.
I can't discuss the legal issues here. Let's just say that Big Record Companies are surely the works of The Devil.
Spread the word...
-tempest"
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Spread the word guys! We don't let commercial people screw with our scene!
I've sent an email to a dutch TV-News show called: RTL Boulevard. Hopefully they'll bring it in the news.
EDIT: Since this news article will be posted on a dutch news site aswell, I've been asked to translate the story into Dutch.
TRANSLATION:
Een Finse demo-scene tracker (artiest) genaamd Janne Suni (ook wel bekend als Tempest/Damage) heeft een muziek stuk gecomponeerd genaamd "Acid Jazzed Evening" voor de Assembly demopoarty (www.assembly.org) in 2000. Tempest won met zijn nummer in een van de categorie?n.
6 Jaar later, een bekende producer genaamd Timbaland, welke voor verschillende bekende artiesten muziek maakt, blijkt dit nummer te hebben geript. Het geripte nummer is deels terug te horen in Nelly Furtado's lied: "Do It" op haar laatste album: "Loose".
Dit soort dingen met demoscene muziek is vaker gebeurd. Een Australi?r was eind 1990 bezig met het verkopen van heel veel demoscene liedjes. Hij veranderde de muziek niet eens en verkocht het als zijn eigen werk.
Het is best interessant dat dit gebeurd, want het blijkt dat veel van deze mensen niet op de hoogte zijn van hoe populair en groot de demoscene daadwerkelijk is. Zij denken dat als zij er nog nooit van gehoord hebben, ze niet gepakt kunnen worden. Dit is totaal verkeerd gedacht omdat de meeste van de geripte liedjes erg bekend zijn binnen deze demoscene omdat deze liedjes vaak prijzen winnen en daarom erg bekend zijn door de meeste mensen van deze demoscene.
Bewijs:
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Het originele .modbestand kan van scene.org worden gedownload: http://www.scene.org/file.php?file=/parties/2000/assembly00/oldskool/music/acid_jaz.zip&fileinfo
Een .Mp3 van het bovenstaande bestand kan hier worden gedownload: http://www.genietervan.com/hoerr/tempest_acidjazz.mp3
Een andere demoscene artiest heeft een remake gedaan op de Comodore 64. Een .Mp3 versie van dit nummer kan hier worden gedownlaod: http://www.genietervan.com/hoerr/glenn_acidjazz.mp3
Een stukje uit het liedje "Do It" kan hier gedownload worden: http://www.genietervan.com/hoerr/furtado_doit.mp3
Een video demonstratie van dit schandaal kan hier bekeken worden: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4KX7SkDe4Q
Meer informatie (in het engels) kan hier bekeken worden: http://forum.openmpt.org/index.php?topic=1244.0
The dutch article has been posted on a dutch news page: http://www.goedzo.com and can be found here:
http://www.goedzo.com/index.php/2007/01/15/timbaland_steelt_muziek_van_finse_tracke
What a dick. Never really liked the guy in the first place, but this is just unacceptable. It's a sad day when the 'Pop' music industry rips off the indies...faggots/bitches. That's what they are. Unfreakingreal.
The only good thing to come out of this, ladies and gents, is that even if you think you're the worst artist in the world, you're probably better than Timbaland...cock.
(Sorry 'bout the explicit language, fellas. Music theft in any form PISSES.ME.OFF.)
EDIT: ARGH! I'm sorry, I just can't get over this. I submitted this story to the local newspaper, so hopefully it'll get picked up there, too. I watched the video demonstration, and some of the comments up there PISSED.ME.OFF. Like one: "Uh...dur dur, timba(shit) is still pretty good to make something (shitty) good out of no-talent shit."
Bastard. As you can see I edited the comment a bit. Anyway...
I've settled down a bit. Time to punch a baby.
Quotethis isn't small thing like ripping a module and uploading it elsewhere with your own name
I don't agree, that it's a small thing. Claiming somebody else's work is straight against the law.
I've listened to the case here, the MOD and the empee3. Of course one side argues about the common things, and the offender talks about the differences. But this is soon a fuzzy discussion, because it has to do with electronics. Is a sample with an added flanger still the original or not ? Played backwards ? Speeded up 6 times ? Another discussion, not very helpful or useful here.
In this case the use of the original MOD is very clear to me. This Timbaland should have said, that he made a 'cover' of Tempest's song.
In acoustic land this option is very common, but unfortunately this has almost never been a concept in electronic music.
Ever heard of somebody made a 'cover' of a track by Vangelis or Jan Boerman ?
In some ways these things are quite straightforward (apart from the moral issue of behaving civilised). Stealing authorship is against the law. Playing around with work of somebody else and publish the result, depends on the license the author has given.
If you publish something as 'free to use', don't moan. (Of course in the days Tempest made this, there was no Creative Commons or such.)
Several licenses can be formulated, such as "free use, but with mentioning the author". The model if making a 'cover'.
Another one is : "free use, after agreement with the author". One can make a distinction between personal use and commercial use.
But, again, many of these aspects are already written (at least in NL, but I guess elsewhere too) in the standard copyright-laws, valid for every citizen.
And trackers should realize, that by publishing the module-file, instead of the mixed output as a compressed WAV-file, the result is extra vulnerable. Because not only one could rip the whole song, but also every single instrument as a sample is available, plus all details of the score.
Mentioned before, but that's why I registered all my songs, I published so far on the net (so also those on this forum), at www.openxound.org , which at least covers the dutch jurisdiction, to pinpoint the exact permissions I give for the use of them.
Sam, I agree with you, to a point. I don't see anything wrong with taking a melody from a song, and making it your own a bit. If the whole damn world tried to come up with new melodies, we'd run out fast. The problem is, if you try to listen to these 2 tracks, you WILL hear, at one point, two identical songs. Timbaland, the bastard, didn't even bother to modify the sounds! (Try running a Vocalremover through "Do It". The result is painfully obvious). The other thing is, Timbaland also stole Tempest's work to make a supposed "Original" ringtone ("Block Party", 2005). So, not only is the bastard a thief, but he's a lazy son of a bitch, too.
I guess we agree totally in this case. We are talking about identical things here. That's why I called it a 'cover'.
I forgot about the ringtone, which indeed is even worse, because ringtones are business. Let's hope Timbaland will choke in his lousy bucks.
True dat. Personally I'd like to see him strangled by his bling. :wink:
Jk yall. Or am i? :?:
Things are not always that simple. Check this vintage module, I rescued from a 5 1/4 floppy disk, DOS with FT II, 1993 :
Ready or not (http://www.samshuijzen.nl/sam/arch/e_mods/ready-or.mod). Stealing ? Read the added comments of the file.
I can't read it. (No OMPT on either of my PCs at the moment.) What's it say?
Sam_Zen,
You rescued this song in 1993, and the comments say 1996?
You're right. The file must have gotten a wrong filedate on the way.
2 Soundcrafter
At least OMPT should definetely be able to read this file
Soundcrafter:
or use a hexeditor, or if you are on a linux machine, try
strings ready-or.mod | head -20 ;)
Quote from: "SoundCrafter"I can't read it. (No OMPT on either of my PCs at the moment.) What's it say?
As in, I CAN'T get OMPT at ALL right now (PC security at school [PC #1], and parental ban back home [PC #2]) And no, PC #2 isn't my normal PC, or otherwise it'd have OMPT on there, now, wouldn't it? And I'm dying to know. Like literally, my body is giving up. :lol:
Quote from: "Sam_Zen"Things are not always that simple. Check this vintage module, I rescued from a 5 1/4 floppy disk, DOS with FT II, 1993 :
Ready or not (http://www.samshuijzen.nl/sam/arch/e_mods/ready-or.mod). Stealing ? Read the added comments of the file.
slice didn't get permission from the dj, who didn't get permission from fugees who didn't get permission from enya (initially). They're all thiefs.
I think it should be possible to start an online petition to put that bozo in his place. The only thing is sometimes negative feedback actually makes losers like these more popular... Its a tough one.
Timbaland interview (http://www.eitmonline.com/eitmonline2/media/eitmlive/timbaland2.mp3)
Thanks to Nullsleep at vorc.com for posting it.
Quote from: "residentgrey"Timbaland interview (http://www.eitmonline.com/eitmonline2/media/eitmlive/timbaland2.mp3)
Thanks to Nullsleep at vorc.com for posting it.
Nice. Transcipt is here too-
http://www.zxdemo.org/extra/timbaland_radio_transcript.txt
"And you have a listen. And it say, C-64, Commodore 64. I don't know. You know what I'm saying? So, I like it. I found it. I got sounds upon sounds upon sound. I don't know what's public domain and what's not. Some stuff don't say."
He's essentially admiting to taking it without permision, but is excusing it by saying it doesn't matter
-- Some of the justification being that he's from America and doesn't having anything to do with Finland, and that it is from a videogame. ::)
I don't know anything about how this could all play out from a legal standpoint, but what he says sounds pretty damn incriminating. Heheh, whoooops.
There's an interesting grey area with regards to sampling. When does it cross the line to become stealing? I think it is easier to be pissed at Timbaland because most people into chiptunes probably aren't into his music... but what do the same people think of this- http://palmsout.blogspot.com/2007/02/sample-wednesday-27-daft-punk.html
I'm sure 99.9% of people here have no qualms with sampling here and there... As an example, the beastie boys have used loads of samples in a bunch of their albums. But they serve as sorts of transitional bits and effects, nothing the main music is based off of. No problem there. But if we agree that the line is crossed when an entire musical segment is sampled in a hit tune without payment to the original composers/ performers, I'm interested in seeing what you'd think about someone like daftpunk doing it.
In their defense though, they at least credited their sources in their liner notes (apparantly), which might make/break the moral difference between the kind of stuff they do and what Timbaland did. "Cola Bottle Baby" IS a huge part of "Harder Better Faster Stronger" afterall.
I guess that and Timbaland's attitude in the interview sucks anyways.
http://www.fairlight.fi/tempest/acidjazzed_evening/
^Tempest has an official site on this whole debacle. Best of luck to him in this whole mess.
edit: And the wikipedia entry is also very well written. Has tons of sources and quotes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_Jazzed_Evening
The entry on similar cases looks hopefull for Tempest.
And somehow the bastard's still a final nominee for the IDMAs...