google translate or hope that Sam will translate for us
http://www.natutech.nl/00/nt/nl/47/artikel/26050/Balen:_%272012%27_is_pas_over_twee_eeuwen.html
the basic idea... well 2012 happens 2220 and... the Long Count Mayan calendar is, well, NOT the longest one.... there is one with 7,890 year units.
Yep, it was on the news here.
The Maya may have made a wrong calculation, so the transition point is shifted two centuries ahead.
So let's party? Keep on bashing this planet, time enough ?
Teach our grandchildren how to use a survival kit in an underground bunker ?
Today is 40 years ago of the report by the Club of Rome.
It already warned for climate change and financial disasters. Nobody wanted to listen.
And : to save energy, this article is just too big for me to make a proper translation.
Please don't think I want to ruin the planet because I think 2012 is.... well unlikely.
People thought the world was going to end ... a couple times already, no?
and of course they mean human civilization ends = quite frankly we do not have the power to ruin the planet - only pollute the biosphere - for a few thousand years - at worst tens of thousands.
we are quite insignificant in the scheme of things when you start thinking on a geologic scale for time.
As a friend once said about the Gaia hypothesis - lets hope the planet doesn't wake up and think it has a carbon rash it needs to scrape off....
Quote from: "Sam_Zen"Yep, it was on the news here.
And : to save energy, this article is just too big for me to make a proper translation.
And I didn't mean to volunteer your time
Abso right. It's a human misconception, mainly caused by religion, to think that the globe will end if
the human species will become extinct.
I've also seen it, but I really don't buy it.
I think its just another try to gain power by giving out false information.
Really, this wouldn't be the first time someone says it.
Next to that, its not just the maya calendar that predicts the end of time in 2012, it are other calendars and prophecies too.
Its fun to see that if one person says so, and it seems to be "good news" everyone instantly believes it.
Do note, I'm not saying that we'll all die in 2012. Time ends, but not the world. 2 things people always seem to put in the same context.
Shut up, LPChip, you just ruined the party here :cry_fists: :lol:
Just make some choons, not ozone holes :D
Why would I need to shut up? Am I not entitled to have my own opinion, like everyone else?
I think you missed some essential parts of his post...
Quote from: "Jojo"I think you missed some essential parts of his post...
Then I might still do that... What part? X)
Sorry, LP, no offence mate :D
And LPChip is still clueless...
Oh well... :nuts: :lol:
Let's party like it 2012. :rudolf:
It is important to note that if a calendar "stops" at a certain date it does not mean the world ends after it. Look at the calendar that is hanging on your wall. It shows 2009. And then nothing. At December 31 the yearly cycle ends. But does it mean that after 2009 there will be no humanity?
Any calendar stops somewhere.
The Maya Long Count calendar (which actually was not created by Maya anyway) is a calendar that includes very long cycles. One of them happens to end on 2012. So what?
Mayan beliefs and philosophy of time does not consider 2012 as anything special. Interpreting it as the end of the world can only come from people who have a philosophical background that implies the end of the world should be an actual event in space and time.
Sounds familiar?
To me it sounds like misinterpreting the Bible.
Another point, mentioned here, is that the end of humanity does not mean the end of the world. However, it will mean the end of the world for us, so I believe it is okay to use that term.
End of a cycle might mean a change, certain processes restarting on a very global scale around us and in space and on the planet. People will certainly reflect that somehow. I think that the restart procedure is neutral in itself. Any positive and negative effects that would come would depend on how we react to that. The most natural yet animal-like reaction is aggression. There you go - roots of a possible problem.
And finally, LPChip says that other prophecies and calendars point to 2012. I would like to see those. Which other calendars?
wikipedia has a whole list of stuff about 2012.
To Louigi:
I'm not sure I can call these calendars. Its just that like the maya, they all have predicted the end of time and the beginning of a new era. The maya has put their own years in it, where others have been calculated based on predicted events that have come true.
An example of this is the I-Ching. It speaks about cycles, like the maya do, and based on predictions made by the I-Ching, the cycle will also reach its end in 2012. Basically what I mean with this is: There are no predictions after this moment, which has been interpret in several ways: Either, there's nothing after this time, aka: death, or there simply is no time to express it in, as there's no time.
Another example of the same principle would be that system that registers a certain tension in the atmosphere. It is used to predict emotional events on humanity. It was spiking 4 hours before 9-11 happened and they have been able to calibrate it to measure (and test) future events. Like the I-Ching, they are unable to measure past 2012, as if there is nothing after this era. This can be explained in spiritual terms as the ascension process. We won't die, but we will be a higher plane of existence which would not measure a disturbed energy field, as there is none. The goal of ascension is to get ourselves in balance.
more information
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_phenomenon
I have sent the link of this topic to my fellow composer Paul DJ, who has gathered a lot of details and facts
about this 2012 phenomenon. I'll ask for his opinion.
I've got the I-Ching myself, but never have seen it as a tool to predict something.
I consider that as a mental trap, caused by a narrow human interpretation.
QuoteLike the I-Ching, they are unable to measure past 2012
I have to admit, at this moment I do not know what I-Ching is, but I can tell you that in Mayan calendar it is possible to go beyond 2012 - but it would just make the calendar very very large. Because adding yet another 8 million year cycle would basically mean doubling the calendar. Why would anyone want to do that?
All the measurements of "tension" or "paranormal" after the event has passed are usually speculation. After you know it was huge, it is easy to tie it up with any measurements, really.
I am not saying I am a materialist who believes that the world is limited to what we can see and touch, but I am the last one to jump to paranormal conclusions based on badly interpreted data.
As for "jumping to the next plane of existence", I have to be honest - I see absolutely no hints as to humanity being ready or even remotely close to any "new plane of existence". I do see that today the importance of short-term profit outweighs many important things.
I do agree that it looks like we're not ready for this, which is sad really...
But on the other hand, when I look at things like the economical crisis, which is one of the last predicted items by the I-Ching, I still see that we're "on schedule".
I am totally agree with Louigi Verona. 2012 will be a normal year ! All of this hoax is bla bla ba (for media) !!! Our calendar stops at 31 december of each year. And after !... :?:
:evil:
Quote from: "LPChip"But on the other hand, when I look at things like the economical crisis, which is one of the last predicted items by the I-Ching, I still see that we're "on schedule".
You see, this is interesting.
For people who are into money and finances and financial manipulation that was a crisis. I personally did not feel a thing. To me it was not a crisis. Maybe same thing will be with the end of times? To some it will happen, to some it won't.
This is not mere speculation. In the Bible it is said that noone knows the time of the end of the world, not even the angels.
Think about it. I do not think this phrase means that nobody knows some exact point in time and that some day God would suddenly make a surprise for everybody. I would understand that phrase that the end of the world is not something that is a fixed date. It is a general phenomena, time of change and to someone it would be the end, to some - difficult times, and some might not even notice.
That's what I mean.
(http://www.hplusmagazine.com/sites/default/files/images/ads/ad-omg-read-hplus.gif)
sorry.... couldn't help myself :-)
:D :D :D LULZ, if I may say so
Nature has its cycles. Very tiny ones, and very large ones.
If the waveform with the pattern of the sequence is clear, the coming zero-crossing can be predicted.
Paul DJ : If we go on like this, we will not even get to the 2218..
Despite the 40 years old warnings of the Club of Rome, we've come into an era of decline.
Just a comment. I remember having read some complaints about "the world is getting worst and worst, we are declining, the civilization is wrecking..." and all that stuff. They were writen in the intermediate period between the Old and the Middle Egyptian Empire. That is, some thousands years ago we began to decline, and we are still on it...
Quote from: "rncekel"Just a comment. I remember having read some complaints about "the world is getting worst and worst, we are declining, the civilization is wrecking..." and all that stuff. They were writen in the intermediate period between the Old and the Middle Egyptian Empire. That is, some thousands years ago we began to decline, and we are still on it...
Ahhh - Damn good point!
You can't find good crocodile dung anymore in the market....
Quote from: "LPChip"I do agree that it looks like we're not ready for this, which is sad really...
But on the other hand, when I look at things like the economical crisis, which is one of the last predicted items by the I-Ching, I still see that we're "on schedule".
No offense but....
Has belief in the Singularity replaced religion for some?
Some of the stuff written here sounds very similar to Christian arguments against atheism. (Because it is written in the Bible its so...)
I don't believe in religion, if that's what you mean.